I use these too.
1 Like
Same here Rene, a vinyl nut
Like you owned all - as you say SL/SCDR a cracking combo
1 Like
Never too late to collect and play vinyl,
Pace your self on the turntable,
It’s a deep hole, and gets even deeper🤣
Well, it can be a very alluring and engaging option, so why not.
If you are starting from scratch, I think the best option is a good used LP12. That will be close enough to streaming that you will enjoy it, and it will be upgradable.
The Rega’s are great too, but if you start lower to mid range, you may find you have to swap it out for something better. The LP12 gives you more options.
3 Likes
Jumping on this thread for some advice. I have a Vertere DG-1 with its basic magneto cartridge upgraded with an AT micro line. It used to sound superb through my Devialet 250 (which has an excellent phono stage). I like my vinyl, about 200 mostly 60s 70s LPs in excellent condition and a good cleaning machine.
I recently purchased an ex dem 222 and 250 NC as I was a bit fed up with the rather flat streaming side of the Devialet. A big improvement. Unfortunately the built in phono on the 222 just isn’t as good as I’m used to. I’m afraid I’m going to have to get a separate phono stage. The matching Vertere Phono - 1 is just over £1k which is as much as I would want to spend. Any other suggestions? Need to be able to load the cart properly which I believe the 222 doesn’t….
Tx
It is misleading to say that properly produced LPs are ‘directly copied’ from a digital source or copied from a CD. Reputable companies using the original digital source master specifically for vinyl, while a different mastering process is used for CD reproduction. The results can sound excellent. Many of the problems with new vinyl seem to me to be more about manufacturing and QC issues during pressing.
6 Likes
Plus 1 for this.
I find the thin, round anti-static sleeves much more fiddly to use than poly liners.
Some of my albums have not been removed for 20/30 years &, when removed, are in fine condition, the same as the day I put them away.
1 Like
I bought some of that brand of inner sleeves recently - they’re very good quality.
Agreed…most reissues from years and years ago are mastered from the original or 2nd. generation analogue tapes, whether this process be in the analogue or digital domain.
In any case, these days, new material seems to be well looked after in the path to becoming a vinyl issue.
1 Like
To anyone embarking on the vinyl journey, I would say make as much of an investment you want to, you are not likely to regret it. This would include starting at at least mid range, if not higher
1 Like
Verteres are great turntables, though rare second-hand.
As others have said, the big advantage of an LP12 is that you can buy a modest old one and upgrade it as far as you want- unlike upgrading a DG-1 into an SG-1 (or a Rega P3 into a P10). However, as a one-off new purchase, I’d argue your Vertere is better value.
As mentioned, the Dynavector P75 mk 4 is great VFM and very adaptable, but I have not compared it directly with the Vertere.
I have compared different ways of powering a Superline, which is my favourite phono stage. To me, Aux 2 beat a Hicap if using the ideal z-foil plug for the cartridge. Having got the plugs sorted, I stopped using a Hicap.
However, a Hicap was at least as good overall if standard and not-ideal plugs were used - that combo gave a bit of an echo-y sheen to the sound, and a Hicap made that less obvious. A Hicap also permitted a bigger distance between SL and its power source, which made it very quiet without needing to fiddle about with an extra earth lead or ultra-careful placement.
I can’t argue with the above comments that Supercap and Superline is an even better combination. Of course, for that money, so it should be. However, I wouldn’t be encouraging anyone who as yet has no vinyl to spend that sort of money on a phono stage.
1 Like
Don’t bother. You would need to spend a significant amount of dosh to get to the level of your NDS.
And I speak as someone who has a mid-range LP12 and 700 LPs. They ain’t going anywhere, but…….
1 Like
Many years ago (late seventies and early eighties) I bought DG digital recordings and they sounded great on my LP12/NAC12S/NAP250.
I still have a collection of LPs of music that I cannot get on CD or HD download.
I got a Project TT with a USB out so I could turn them into digital.
But, they sounded so good anyway that I decided to keep them as vinyl.
I was going to disagree with @Skeptikal but remembered how good that digital recordings sounded on my analogue system over 40 years ago.
1 Like
Tx, a Superline is a bit out of my budget for this year, especially with an additional PS. I’ll probably get the Vertere Phono 1 as it’s often been reviewed with my DG-1 TT and gets a good write up. I upgraded from a Rega p6 to the DG1 and was simply wowed by it.
Just about all new vinyl comes from a digital source.
The day’s of it going to a 2 inch reel to reel and then from that to vinyl are long gone.
Even when they use a copy off the master, 99% that will be a digital copy.
Every time you play a tape to make a copy it degrades, that why they copy to digital as that doesn’t.
So a
Just about all new vinyl or anything that’s a re master, etc will be from a digital copy.
The question isn’t whether new vinyl releases have a digital master or not, rather it’s whether the vinyl version - used on a set-up of similar quality to the digital rig - will sound better than the digital release.
In my experience the vinyl version always wins. Yes, there’s still the chance you may get a dodgy pressing that’s very noisy or a release where they’ve tried to cram music on one disc that should be on two thus flattening dynamics, but that’s not too common.
While I’m happy to stream a new album to gauge whether I like it, if I’m going to listen to it properly I will buy it on vinyl.
So yeah, if you value sound quality vinyl is the way to go in my personal experience. Not convenient, sure, but the juice is worth the squeeze, at least for me.
2 Likes
I have done the same…listened on hi-res streaming, liked, purchased on vinyl, with no regrets.
I’m biased but here are my 2 cents
Tables : Avid or Techdas
Arm : high mass types like S/H Fidelity research FR64S or new Groovemaster IV
Cart : Phasemation or Koetsu (unavailable for now though)
LPs : Go for NM first pressing of pre digital albums as a start (so many to choose from. Cannot understand why people would sell their collection for pennies to dealers). Most can be had for little money & will give the latest remastered 180g a run for their money. Excpet maybe Sade A Diamond Life - I prefer the later remastered version - more oomph
I think joining the vinyl club starting from nothing really depends on access to good local second hand vinyl retailers.
I added vinyl to my setup a few years back and mainly use this for expanding music discovery by picking up old discs from local shops and don’t care to spend time evaluating the whole digital versus vinyl topic. To me, it’s a waste of time. While digital is still main for me, I now have two turntables and use them regularly. I went for direct drive to avoid belt and spindle maintenance.
But can’t stress the importance of access to local retailers enough. As my collection grows I find that old discs are usually fine and that new pressings have a nearly 50% defect rate (for my roll of the dice) with dished, off centre, shallow groove discs being sadly common. And they are incredibly expensive on top of being duff. Second hand, I have picked up mostly great sounding stuff for very little.
I tend to clean them up, resleeve, then record them on my ADC to the NAS for replay throughout the house and then give them a spin for fun now and then. Like I said, it’s about increasing access to music discovery. If I chance on something really superb but is a bit worn or noisy, I mark it for later purchase in digital format.
FWIW I have not heard any vinyl that is a patch on good digital. I think you’d have to spend a lot more on vinyl front end than on digital to get anywhere close, and accept the pops, clicks etc. and that is before considering cost of media. And don’t forget wear, and the essential cleaning machine. Other people’s views differ, but I think there is a lot of nostalgia involved: I grew up with vinyl, and there is a ‘mystique’ and a certain magic to playing it, and a ritual absent with digital. Also LP sleeves were tactile and of a size that lent themselves to artistic presentation that added to the experience - but that is the one thing I miss. Good digital has brought me greater realism and clarity, lacking vinyl’s limitations.
This personal view in no way means don’t have a go with vinyl, but do go in with your eyes open, and if you don’t have unrealistic expectations you may well enjoy.
5 Likes