Iliria, as a matter of fact only you can answer that question…
However, if you were not raised on vinyl I am afraid that you risk not to solve that equation and probably if you struggle that much to find the answer it’s better you drop vinyl and enjoy music with new media.
I started with vinyl in 1976 and never ceased to use it. Recently due to maintenance necessities to my LP12 I used CD primarily and enjoyed it since when a few weeks ago I restored an old Yamaha YP800 on which I mounted a cheap Clearaudio Concept V2 mm via a Stageline/Flatcap XS and in a few seconds I realised where I belongs to… So much that I decided to upgrade my '90s playback system and just ordered this morning a VPI Prime…
When you love you know, when you doubt… you don’t…
But having said that, I hope you’ll make up your mind and turn to vinyl… It’s just so good…
Good luck
Alessandro
I’m pretty sure the analogue signal from the phono stage is converted to digital by the nova, then converted back to analogue by the nova.
Your complaint that you can’t hear much different in sound is probably due to the above. You can’t accurately judge the sound quality/characteristic of your turntable set up, if it’s hampered by the ADC/DAC in the nova.
i read somewhere that the nova is not the best for vinyl replay, perhaps it can explain the no differences.
It is probably this conversion, analogue to digital, as you say.
if i want to listen to Isaac Hayes, Aretha Franklin, Led Zeppelin or 70’s jazz-rock, i much prefer to put an lp on my rp8 than listening to the same albums on hirez, via my nds/555dr. The sound is more lifelike.
My lps are all in mint or near mint condition, so i have no cracks, no hum, no noises at all. Anti static brush and isopropyl with water from time to time.
But when an ADC and DAC of decent enough quality are matched you may be hard pushed to detect a difference. And differences depend so much on the mastering - either could sound better than the other if the mastering is different…
It’s good to get ideas. I wouldn’t rush into anything.
I don’t think a cleaning machine should be necessary to enjoy vinyl - whether it’s a £200 to £2,000 deck.
The conversion to digital doesn’t sound encouraging although not heard the Nova myself.
No getting away from the expense of most new/used vinyl so you’ve got to really value it, which you clearly don’t right now.
What about buying a cheap 80s/early 90s amp for £100 and play the Rega through that? You should be able to get a lot of fun out of vinyl for very little investment. See how that works out and then take it from there.
Don’t bet on it. I’ve bought a few hi-res downloads that I enjoyed and subsequently bought the vinyl, I prefer the vinyl even if there are some pops and clicks, one album in particular was night and day different - there must be something in the mastering to contribute to this as digital ‘should’ be more accurate.
The skipping question is interesting, as I’m supposedly from an older generation with a longer attention span!
With digital I will skip tracks I don’t enjoy that much, and will even play only the standout tracks only to move rapidly to another album. So, I’m not suggesting everyone will not listen to an album through on digital media, just that I personally use the convenience factor potentially missing out on songs which might be growers or ‘bloom’ later in the song.
I think you are spot on with the problems with modern vinyl releases - they are not cheap, though perhaps no more expensive comparatively than decades ago, however the quality is very variable and although many LPs sound better to me on my old LP12 than their digital equivalents, it is particularly annoying having scratches in quiet sections of brand new LPs when they often tout quality/half speed mastering etc - years ago if I’d bought such an album from a small local retailer I’d have taken it back, but these have often come from online vendors and the albeit minor additional hassle to return or concrns you’ll get a worse copy often prevent me from doing so, and I might just enjoy it enough to order a second copy. Perhaps subconsciously I don’t want vinyl to dry up and I don’t want returns to be a reason for its demise - wrong logic perhaps if we want to improve quality.
A few months ago I went to an event at my local hi-fi store where a turntable manufacturer was putting on a show - I have to admit that the lower priced offerings left me rather cold, and each ‘upgrade’ to the next level brought expected improvements at the relevant price. While that sounds rather snobbish, I did think that the cheaper items would probably have fared badly compared to similar offerings a few decades ago.
In the 80’s perhaps a budget turntable still had lots of involving qualities when it came to pace/rhythm, or simply boogie factor, whereas more expensive purchases brought finesse, detail and soundstaging to the party, but with this particular demo I felt the entry turntables were missing the basic qualities they needed to work.
That is probably a factoid, started by companies that use an ADC/DAC in their equipment.
The AI on the nova can be used with a CD player as well as a turntable. Would anybody seriously plug a CDS3 into a nova.
Another consequence of using a turntable with an amp that employs an ADC/DAC, is the sound characteristic of the turntable could change overnight. As we’ve heard recently, firmware upgrades change the SQ, and not always for the better.
Although I do agree that a lot of vinyl these days is from digital sources, that tends to be digital music imho. Anyone who knows their vinyl and music will know to find the right release based on source and pressing plant. There have been some remarkable represses and remasters released on vinyl in the last 2 years alone, specifically thinking of U2, Guns n’ Roses, Pink Floyd, Elton John, Led Zeppelin. These have all been from the original tapes and the represses are all a noticeable improvement over the original releases. There are also new pressing methods which are offering superb playback performance over the normal pressings, of course these come at a cost, but for the marked improvement in SQ, I’d say it’s exciting and I’ve bought a few and have been absolutely blown away by them.
In @iliria’s case, music appreciation is a very personal thing and one person’s Valhalla is another’s hell, and in their case it sounds like perhaps vinyl is not the way forward AS THE MAIN METHOD of listening. What I would add though is that perhaps selling everything is not the way forward either. I hear of so many people that sideline vinyl for a period and then come back to it years down the line with further appreciation for the media and it’s qualities. I’ve seen so many people returning to forums saying “oh I wish I’d never sold my collection”.
I never sell anything. I started buying vinyl 20 years ago but only got my own player 2 years ago. I had plenty of offers for my collection, but knew there would come a time when I was able to appreciate it for what it was and I’m so glad I kept it! My setup happens to be quite similar to the OP’s with a 2016 Planar 3.
We swing around the place through time, coming back to things we’d forgotten with a new zest.
[quote=“Fatcat, post:52, topic:306”]
That is probably a factoid, started by companies that use an ADC/DAC in their equipment.
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Not sure about that - but I can’t say its not the case either!
I think any manufacturer offering a firmware change that affects the character of the sound should either ensure it is reversible - and as long it can be reversed it is a non-issue. Personally I’m quite happy that the firmware in my DAC is fixed!
There was a thread in the previous forum concerning the fact that on some Naim streamers the firmware is not reversible. (I think it is the Nova).
Some very unhappy users, with equipment that sounded broken after firmware upgrade, told by Naim, old firmware isn’t available for reinstall as it breaches licensing agreements Naim has with providers of streaming services.
If I may be permitted a little self-promotion: the group I manage last autumn recorded their debut album on a Studer 2-inch tape machine at RAK In London. Everything was completely analogue, including the console. It was mastered at Gearbox Records, again using vintage analogue equipment and is being pressed by Optimal in Germany. It is a completely analogue record.
The other week I invited the band round my house. First of all, we listened to 24/96 files of the album. then we listened to a test pressing of the vinyl LP. They were blown away by just how good the vinyl sounded, epecially compared to the hi-res (which sounds really good itself).
So, when it comes out in February or March, look out for “Up In Smoke” by Ese & The Vooduu People, because even if you don’t like the music, the all-analogue vinyl sounds amazingly good.
As a former Nova owner I tried a Chord Qutest and Dave/Core into Nova. It all sounded the same as a Nova …I came to the conclusion the limiting factor is the analogue to digital conversion followed by the DAC. You do not mention how many albums you have? I think you need something better than a Nova for vinyl, it’s an excellent modern streamer amp, but perhaps vinyl was overlooked.
I may be wrong but I thought the Unitis kept analogue input out of the digital domain whereas I know Linn do digitize.
However, I’m a little surprised that the OP is finding his vinyl replay less than satisfactory. I say this because a couple of years ago at the Bristol show Neat were demonstrating their excellent Iotas with a Rega RP3 through a Rega Fonostage into a Superuniti and the Rega was killing the digital replay from a Unitiserve. I’m sure all the usual things have been checked, tracking weight, stylus wear etc but is it worth a trip to a Rega dealer to having everything checked out.
Lindsay, it was because of the excellent reviews that the Planar3 got at the time of releasse a couple of years ago that I bought it. Everyone in the vinyl forums was raving about the P3. Some revieweres were even saying that it gave more value for money than the P6. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that the quality is horrendous. But when you weigh the expense one has to go through and the cost of vinyl out there against the quality of sound then the performance is not satisfactory at all. With a good pressing it sounds very nice indeed but considering that probably 70-80% of modern vinyl pressings are below cd standard that adds to the dissatisfaction.
I have no doubt that a £2k-£5k turntable would produce superior sound to the P3 but I am just not prepared to spend that amount of money on a turntable. I, personally, can’t justify it. If I have to spend thousands in order to discover the magic of vinyl then I’d much rather stick to CD.
In regards to the discussions about the Nova, I’m getting rather confused. This is supposed to be a top of its range player and from a reputable maker such as Naim. Costing £4k! If it is rubbish with a turntable then what hope is there for all those modern sub £1k amps?
Despite the hassle, the cleaning ritual and the pops and clicks (let alone the worst bane of all -at least for the type of music I listen to-, namely, the often off-centered hole with the associated pitch variation; as Richard D says, when it works it’s magical. Listening now to Haydn’s Op 76 from an Argo boxed set I found used two weeks ago… no version of the many of the same work I have in digital feels more “there” and natural…
It’s just so good…
