Hard not to have fun really.
The sound it provides is truly wonderful not much more i can really add, as you really just need to here what it can do to fully understand what it’s like.
But it has taken me decades to get to this level and i feel very privileged to have been able to do it.
Cheers dunc
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There is also the potential to play the vinyl feeding to DCS via an ADC. I don’t have an ADC to suggest - there was talk several years ago of Chord producing one matching Dave, working name Davina, but I’ve heard nothing of late. There are professional ones of course. I’ve toyed with the idea myself and may follow through some time to avoid the need to hang on to a preamp, but for my usage, not a typical hifi source lag could be in issue.
A few on the dCS forum use an ADC, so they don’t have to have a pre amp.
But like i said for me the thought off doing this goes against all the things i love about vinyl, and analog. If it was my only way then i would simply just sell all my vinyl stuff, and go just digital only, and i don’t want to do that.
Plus i am very happy with my vitus sia030 right now, yes i am sure it’s adding a bit off warmth, and maybe doing other things as well, but compared to what i had before, and what that was doing it’s a long way ahead off that.
Plus having tried the humbolt a few weeks ago, and finding that it wasn’t much difference, couple that after hearing what the mono heisenburg could do directly from the dCS vivaldi, and that only being about 5% - 10% max better than the humbolt integrated could do. I know that what i have now is very good, and would certainly taken something to better it, and cost me a considerable amount more.
So in a word very happy with it all, as i should be really, shouldn’t I.
Cheers dunc
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You should give it a go, i’ve just got a wadia 150 adc and i can’t say i notice any losses running into a luxman d-10x.
( NA dais/dv507/denon 103/esc modded). If you search online, there is another one available.
Little point as i can’t bypass the pre in the vitus sia030 anyway, i would need just a vitus amp, and to complete with the sia030 that’s quite an expensive amp from vitus as the sia030 is a real beast, and an outstanding product from vitus.
The problem, well not a problem at all, but one reason the sia030 is quite special, and sounds so much better than it really should do, or you think it should do is because. The SIA-030 has similar fully regulated power supplies of the Vitus MP-M201 mono blocks, and volume control from the MP range as well, so really it’s much more than the middle off the range product from vitus.
Well as you say, if you can’t bypass the pre then it’s a moot point “going digital”. I’m only doing this as an experiment, as i’m thinking of going (back) to a bartok or getting a linn dsm and going straight into my active atc’s.
My local Vitus dealer recommends incorporating a Vitus preamp, asserting it would offer superior audio quality compared to the digital volume controls of a DAC. At the time I bought the Vitus monoblock, I hadn’t yet acquired a dCS to test this claim. While I’m inclined to think a preamp might compromise transparency and clarity, it’s worth noting that a DAC output set to maximum without attenuation typically boasts a higher signal-to-noise ratio. It’s conceivable that a high-end preamp might enhance the sound, introducing a richer auditory experience with greater depth, dynamism, and an expanded soundstage.
Currently, I possess three DACs: the Mola Mola Tambaqui, Emmlabs DV2, and Rossini Apex. All are equipped with so-called lossless digital volume control and can directly drive the power amp. Given that I exclusively use digital sources, I don’t see an immediate need for a preamp. Still, I’m curious to discover what a high-end preamp could contribute to my system.
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If i could then i would certainly go directly from my vivaldi dac into a true balanced dual mono amp. As the volume control is so good there is no need for a pre amp to get in the way and mess things up.
The first time i tried it i couldn’t believe the difference, it was miles better going straight into my 500dr, my pre back then never went back in as it just sounded wrong in comparison. So i know exactly what you are saying mate.
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I can honestly say the dcs volume control is very good and with the different output voltage settings you can select it’s much easier to find the right mix between the volume and out put to keep it closer to the 0.0 db.
But dcs themselves state that the volume doesn’t lose anything until you get right down the range, can’t remember exactly but lot’s off info on it all on the dcs forum.
But even so you still might prefer the pre amp in, if so, that’s fine you are free to do whatever you like, but if you can not use a pre amp then you will certainly be hearing tye dcs kit as it’s more ment to be, obviously the amp, and speakers will still add whatever, and probably this is more the problem, in the amp/speakers no longer suit ?
But dcs never use a pre amp when doing demo’s and that really says it all in my eyes. Better spending your money on a better amp or speakers rather than an expensive pre amp.
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Using dCS without a preamp doesn’t allow for bi-amping. However, one of my upgrade options is to acquire another pair of Vitus mono blocks to maximize my speakers’ performance. If a preamp negatively affects the sound quality, I might reconsider this approach.
With a DAC having good volume control, well buffered low impedance output capable of sourcing whatever current a power amp may need, and filtering of supersonic frequencies if needed by the power amp, there is no point to a preamp if you don"t have analogue sources - unless the sound signature the preamp stamps on the music is something you prefer to the unadulterated signal.
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What dcs say on the volume used in the dac’s, just one little bit, much more can be found if you want to search for it.
Yes, in many cases this unveils extra detail. Note that the DAC’s 6V setting may be too high, forcing you to set the DAC’s volume control too low. Vivaldi’s volume control works well down to around -40dB, while the other products start to lose detail with the volume below -26dB. Changing to the 2V setting allows the volume to be raised by 10dB. The acceptable loudness will be different for each system and listener.
The Vivaldi DAC v2.00, the Rossini DAC and the Rossini Player feature two lower output level settings for use when the system sensitivity is very high.
For other products, if you find you have to set the volume too low, we can only suggest that you resort to passive attenuators (not recommended) or a good preamplifier. Please consult your dealer for help
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Actually, I do have a problem with the dCS driving the Vitus power amp directly. Most Vitus power amps have an input sensitivity of 0.7 and 2v, unlike their preamps which offer 2/4/8v. When I set the Rossini output to 2v, it’s fine with music from the streamer, but it’s too soft for Netflix movies. I can’t hear the dialogue even when I max out the volume. Currently, I’m using 6v and risk clipping. I’m always worried that a loud passage will fry the speakers.
That doesn’t make sense - if you can play louder without clipping, from a different source into the Vitus power amp then how on earth is it going to go into clipping when playing at a lower sound level?! Clearly your Netflix source is giving a lower level output than normal from a preamp, so either find a setting or different output which achieves the higher level, or yes you need a preamp to raise the level (and yes you likely need a preamp if the Netflix source has no control over volume).
dCS is my digital hub. Netflix, Disney+, HBO, and other apps run on the projector and use an optical out into dCS. The dCS comes with a built-in streamer. I also have a dedicated streamer that connects via USB to the dCS.
There’s no individual gain adjustment for each digital input to offset the volume. Each of the apps running on the projector has varying loudness levels; YouTube is the loudest, while most movie streaming apps tend to be softer. It’s complicated.
All my sources are digital, so I can’t use an analog preamp.
Would I be correct in assuming that their is always a ‘preamp’ in the system, and that this discussion above is more about differences of it being built into the DAC vs. a separate box?
I tried my power amp (Conrad Johnson 350) direct from my DAC (Gustard A26), compared to using preout from the DAC to an NAC282 (A-B back and forth, but no quadruply triply blindfold or fancy graphs, which caused huge consternation for that level of ignorance on another place. I removed that post).
Anyway, the 282 stayed. I’m guessing on this forum I’m ok to say I liked the sound better.
PS. I only have digital sources.
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I own the Gustard X26 Pro, which is similar to the A26. It employs a traditional digital volume control. This method reduces volume by attenuating the amplitude of the digital signal. However, as the amplitude diminishes, fewer bits represent quieter sounds, resulting in a drop in bit resolution.
On the other hand, dCS uses a “bit-perfect” volume control technique. With this approach, even when the volume is lowered, the DAC maintains the audio signal’s original bit depth. Instead of losing resolution, the system dynamically adjusts the reference level during the conversion process. This ensures that there’s no loss in audio detail or the typical degradation in sound quality associated with digital volume attenuation.
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Thanks Wusplay. I think that answers my question as to why some systems could sound better without a pre, as well as validating my experience in relation to my specific DAC with no pre attached.
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As above, the DCS built in volume is very good, and really no need for a pre amp.
But as with everything it also depends on other factors, and this will obviously result in different outcomes.
But if you have the right system them for sure you can get away with no extra pre amp when using a dcs dac, and even better results if that dac has apex.
Cheers dunc
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