We’re in a very hard water area and Mrs_n has suggested getting ourselves a water softener. Any recommendations on brands ? Did you go direct and get the supplier to fit or was it done through your favoured plumber ?
Any suggestions / guidance appreciated.
James
We have a Harvey. It was originally installed by our plumber but the replacement was done by Harvey themselves. It’s a brilliant thing. No scum in the bath or round the sink and you use about 1/3 of the amount of washing liquid, soap, shampoo etc, and hardly any salt in the dishwasher. Mrs HH says it makes her hair fluffy, so you may want more conditioner. It lives in the garage. One thing to note is that you’ll want the kitchen cold tap and the outside tap unsoftened, the latter because you shouldn’t use softened water on your plants.
We have a Harvey too. So much more convenient to use their block of salt than crystal salt.
Another thumbs-up for the Harvey from me (fitted by them).
But don’t underestimate the cost of the salt blocks, which you will get through pretty quickly.
A friend has one; she and her family think it is brilliant. Harvey installed it for them.
You may already be aware, but whilst much better for washing, softened water might not be good for drinking as they work exchange sodium for the calcium and magnesium that make the water hard. Good practice when installing a softener is to have a separate water supply for drinking, branching off before the water goes through the softener and on to taps and boiler etc in the house. the softened water being good for all non drinking/food purposes. (N.B it is common for dishwashers to have inbuilt spfteners that can optionally be used, though requiring regular top-up of salt. I don’t recall coming across the same with washing machines.
An alternative to water softener is a deioniser, which takes out the minerals in water, not repacing with anything. It is just as good for washing etc, and also is safe to drink although some people find its lack of taste unpleasant because they are used to water having a slight taste. No scum when making tea, and no scaling of kettles.
Knowing that James is a bit geeky, the latest Harveys have a sensor that alerts you when the salt is running low. We had a few problems getting the iLid (yes, I know) connected to the WiFi, so we got a visit from someone from Harvey, who happened to be the lead person in R&D who was designing the next generation of their softeners. Lovely guy, and we learned so much about the tech in softeners while drinking tea in the garden.
Buying salt in bulk is a good idea if you have storage space. I keep about 18 months supply.
My softener is over 12 years old now and a bit basic, but it works well. It was installed by the plumber when the house was renovated.
I got my current one from North East Water. It’s a Harvey TwinTec, and the same model is rebadged with a different title by different suppliers, so it is difficult to compare. They are competitive in price,iIt’s published on their website, whereas many suppliers ask you to give your details and will get back to you with a price. I ordered after my last one failed after 11 years, and it was delivered the next day, with a 10 year warranty.
It is an absolutely terrific product, and Halite salt are very cheap with next day delivery. Highly recommended.
I just spray the the shower screen after, and it dries clear.
Got a Harvey and it works well. But need to understand a bit more about some saying you need to drink unsoftened water and use it on your boiler. My installer ( who also does the salt bloks) said there was not need. I understand about the ion exchange bit, just why this should be detrimental to me or my boiler.
We have a Monarch (Midi HE). Very compact, and has been very straightforward. Recommended. Plumber installed when we had a new kitchen. I was sceptical of my wife’s insistence but damn it she was right. As others report, the difference in cleaning, notably the showers and grout and so on, is crazily good. No more viakal 
. It’s the limescale that soap scum and mould gathers on - it pretty much all disappears.
We didn’t bother with a bypass drinking tap. And it’s totally fine.
A softener replaces calcium and magnesium with sodium, meaning that f you switched to drinking (and cooking) with softened water instead of hard water your sodium intake would increase. Supposing your water hardness among the highest in UK, e.g. 400mg/L expressed as calcium carbonate: After softening that would contain 184 milligrams of sodium per litre (equivalent to almost half a gram of salt), so if, as I do, you drink, say, up to 4 litres of water of tea a day, that would add up to almost three quarters of a gram of sodium to daily intake (equivalent to consuming an additional 1.9 grams of salt per day. The recommended maximum daily intake of sodium per day from all dietary sources is 2.5 grams (6 grams of salt), and many people already struggle to keep their sodium/salt intake low enough without water contributing, with health risks associated with blood circulation and heart disease. If you don’t drink much tap water, direct or in beverages, then it might not be an issue.
Sodium also makes water more corrosive than calcium and magnesium, hence there could be potential corrosion issues in boilers, however softened water avoids limescale build up and in that respect is beneficial. There are therefore arguments for and against, and whilst I think that these days most boilers are probably OK woth softened water, best advice would be to take advice from the boiler manufacturer.
The health dis benefits are not really made clear with water softeners. My area has quite hard water, but I have no idea what the measured levels are. So I looks like I’m drinking increased levels if sodium.
As i have a combi boiler then all hot water goes via the heat exchanger which , so far, has no leaks- or non that i know of. I was more concerned what happens to the chlorides from the salt regen. But I am assuming nothing as the domestic water softening process is a simple anion process, rather than both ?
Folks,
Thank you very much for your advice and recommendations. I knew I could rely on the forum for some good information so i’ve now got some reading to do…
I may be back with more questions.
Thanks again
James
James, you know where we are if you want to take a look at one or check the shower screen for scale.
After the preset volume of softened water, the salty water in the reservoir is run through the resin tanks to clean off the stuff that’s been removed from the water, and then ends up in the drain. That’s how the regeneration process works.
I thought the calcium ions that were stuck to the resins were exchanged for sodium ions and then rinsed down the drain. So that these ions were not in solution.
I ought to know all these as I used to work 8n a nuclear power station, but the water treatment plant was not something I worried about!
You can enquire of your water authority as to what the hardness actually is - they are obliged to tell you, and most likely you will be able to find it on their website under water quality. For clarity, the water would only exceed the regulatory limit for sodium in drinking water if the sodium added by a softener plus any sodium already in the water exceeds the prescribed limit of 200mg/L, so if the sodium in the mains supply is low, e.g. 30, the water would not exceed the recognised safe drinking water limit until the water hardness as calcium carbonate exceeds 370mg/L (yielding 170mg/L sodium upon softening by ion exchange). The sodium content of your mains water should also be available as part of the water quality information through the water authority’s website.
For clarity, the water is not rendered unsafe to drink purely by softening, and as long as the total sodium is below the regulatory limit it can be regarded as totally safe - BUT it is a dietary source of sodium, and if anyone in the household has, say, high blood pressure they likely will be advised to keep sodium (salt) intake low, and drinking water is often forgotten as a source because most water supplies in UK have low sodium. The amount you consume also is significant - some people much more than others,
The ion exchange process is cation exchange. There are other water softening processes that don’t put sodium in the water, i.e. deionisation, which can be by ion exchange (cation+anion) or reverse osmosis aka ultrafiltration.
I have never bought a softener but I knew of the recommendation that best not to drink several decades ago, and I would expect installation guidance to include provision of a bypass for drinking water at least in very hard water areas. If the installation includes providing a bypass there’d be no need to advise against drinking (it is normally advised to only drink water from the designated drinking water tap, usually the first outlet in the house and in the kitchen).
Calcium and magnesium are exchanged for sodium, meaning the sodium is left in the water instead. The regeneration does the reverse, and it is the calcium and magnesium laden regeneration effluent that goes down the drain leaving the sodium on the resin ready to do it all again.
A nuclear power station will not have used softened water, but de-ionised.
Yes, the incoming water was subject to RO, then any condensate was polished via cation, anion and mixed beds. Regen was with a range if nasty acids and alkalines.
Our industrial chemists were all genuinely mad. Too many years of sniffing and drinking the chemicals I’m sure. However, their stories were always intresting.
