Not quite. This is the danger of paraphrasing. What Naim actually said was:
“The default UnitiServe setting is to rip CDs in WAV format. FLAC can be selected as an alternative to offer reduced file size but may result in subjectively less good sound.“
I think the important word there is ‘subjectively’.
Well, you wouldn’t wanna get sued now, would ya.
Any compressed format needs to be decompressed (like when you have to unzip a document in order to make it readable) before playback so that creates a processing overhead that isn’t required for a WAV file. This could be the subjective difference naim refer to.
As I understand it, it’s not the decompressing that’s the issue. Rather it’s because it’s easier to get the PCM stream that the streamer needs from wav than from flac.
It’s what I do. Apple lossless via ITunes. Then stored on my Nas. Sometimes have to manually add artwork.
Tried all sorts of other formats, but for ease and sound quality, hard to beat.
How much of that os the Core, and how much the CDs? CDs only use metadata to tell you what the music is, so how it is actually tagge is not very critical. When I ripped mine, metadata was all over the place: composer variously as tagged as composer or artist, composer name sometimes surname first sometimes not and sometimes only surname, genre for say a symphony could be classical or orchestral or symphonic, etc. Unlike the original CDs, with streaming software using metadata as a critical requirement for searching and selecting, so the haphazard metadata from different CDs becomes a problem (unless you are lucky enough to have software that is happy to do that purely with file structure and folder/filenames). What I’m saying is I’m not convinced it is the ripping that is the problem with metadata, but the CDs, though if the file format, or the way it is implemented in the ripping machine, imposes other restrictions that won’t help.
Not true there is still an overhead for wav just not as much as FLAC. DACs only accept LPCM so the wav has to be rewrapped to raw LPCM. Personally never heard any difference between lossless formats on any hardware.
It’s the Core. For example, you can’t even have a composer tag.
In terms of metadata consistency my experience is that MusicBrainz in better than Rovi and even far better than FreeDB. But even with MusicBrainz I wish to be able alter/correct tags which is not possible at present.
Note: I am not talking about files purchased (or ripped elsewhere) uploaded to the Downloads folder of the Core as there you have full control on metadata yourself.
I never said WAV didn’t require any processing at all but it is only a container, so once the 44 byte header containing bit depth and sample rate has been ingested, the rest of the file is the raw PCM data stream which can be clocked into the D/A converter at the rate specified in the header. With formats like FLAC, the container is actually the codec and the encoded (i.e. smaller) data stream needs decoding back into a raw PCM data stream for subsequent D/A conversion - hence the additional overhead when compared to WAV. Apologies if the distinction of it being an additional overhead wasn’t clear in my post.
I think that is where the Core’s problems arise - the alternative is to rip on a computer using something like dBp, and edit the metadata just as you would on downloads before copying to the Core and your backup device. It is still a pita, but as long as done immediately not wIting till there are hundreds it should be manageable. I had the misfortune of ripping without any awareness of that metadata would become the basis of library software, and the majority of my collection is riddled with the resultant inconsistencies and missing metadat…
When I had a 272, I couldn’t hear a difference between WAV and FLAC transcoded on the fly. (Rips of the same CD, of course.) With my Atom and non-Naim pre/streamer, I can’t hear a difference between WAV and un-transcoded FLAC. I don’t think I’m alone but some, endowed with ears more golden than mine apparently can. So the answer to your OP may depend on you and doing a few trial rips In different formats and comparing them seems an excellent idea. Why not let us know how you get on?
Roger
SongKong does an ok job of searching and tagging and updating metadata, using MusicBrainz and other services, and apparently does a reasonable job with classical music too…
To be clear the file is compressed not the music which is then uncompressed before playing. Both flac and wav are lossless formats i.e. nothing is lost.
I’ve always thought a better word than compressed is zipped. Compression in audio has bad associations, whereas zipped is better understood for what it is & what it does; Send a zipped file of high resolution photos to someone & they unzip the same high resolution photos.
I am somewhat amazed at the many issues, and work-arounds, that you guys have with your music libraries.
I can understand that many people have opted for a “one supplier approach” but it seems that the Naim streaming track record has been flawed as evidenced by your many issues.
When I started streaming I opted for ripping CDs on a PC using dBpoweramp (I understand EAC is good too) and stored my library as flac on a PC and have used both AssetUPnP and Serviio as servers to provide my music stream. As a result I had no metadata or artwork issues.
Having said that I can and do make many metadata/artwork “improvements” on an almost daily basis - because it is so easy.
It seems that the Naim approach has historically been .wav based but cannot understand why you would want to transcode flac to play it ! Is there (or has there been) a Naim technical issue with flac?
It seems a simple process has been made over-complicated and is making some people reluctant to enter the streaming game. That would be unfortunate.
Hi @ChrisSU
I did a fairly indepth, fixed volume, test today of 7 of my test CDs ripped to both WAV and FLAC, and played thru my NDS. I found that the WAV files sounded a little better. Slightly fuller stage, a tad more realistic sounding instruments, and the Pop music I selected wasn’t harsh. Pop always seems to be recorded a bit harsher.
Since storage is pretty cheap, a good 1TB SSD is about $150 on Amazon, I’ll be taking your earlier advice and ripping to WAV, and then converting, en masse, to FLAC later on if I feel it’s necessary.
So, thanks for the initial recommendation from a few days/posts ago.
There is no technical issue playing FLAC with Naim streamers, just that WAV sounds a little better. If you transcode a FLAC file to WAV you will get the best performance out of your streamer. This is due to there being less overhead on the processing done within the streamer which generates more noise which can affect the sound. This isn’t a technical issue it’s just a fact of life.
This is no different to any other system optimisation that people may wish to indulge in like upgrading power cables, speaker cables, Fraim, system positioning etc. which all may subtle (and sometimes significant) differences to the end result.
Considering that with most media servers transcoding FLAC to WAV is simply a matter of clicking a checkbox I really don’t see the big deal.
Obviously I am aware of that. I was simply explaining why flac files are smaller. Simple answer to a simple question
What ripper/server are you using?