WAV or FLAC & why

To be even clearer WAV and FLAC are also containers and can hold MP3 files should you wish to do so.

Itā€™s because itā€™s a computer term. UNIX was using compress for files long before even MS DOS (Domestos as we called it) arrived on the scene. I was using compress on a DEC PDP11/44!

Zip algorithms came later on, not sure when though.

First Gen streamers /usually/ sound better when fed with WAV files. The decoding of FLAC files generates a small amount of electrical noise and this can lead to a slightly harsher sound.

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Thanks Guinness, yes I was aware of that, itā€™s just a comment/observation as some on the forum are confused & associate compression with the negatives of compressed sound reproduction, whereas I donā€™t believe such confusion exist with a zip file.

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Itā€™s really easy to hear things that are not really there, especially with expensive equipment. People hear what they hear, and some seem to enjoy spending a lot of time trying to find the absolute perfect sound, which is perhaps somewhat of a Tantalean punishment. Most folks who are able to afford Naim equipment are over 40, so their hearing will very likely be the most limiting factor in the audio chain anyway.

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There are a lot of people who are over 40 (me included) who can quite easily tell difference between even trivial system changes. An of course your over ā€œ40 ruleā€ doesnā€™t apply to women who have much better hearing than men throughout most of their life. :hear_no_evil:

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Hehe yes iā€™m over 40 myself and i was a music producer in my younger years, i can also pick up subtle differences, but there is a limit to that obviously. Iā€™m positive that on any newer streamer without technical issues (bad DAC or badly encoded file) the difference between a WAV and a FLAC cannot be discerned by anyone on these forums. I think people would be better off just enjoying the music instead of looking for these tiny tiny differences that realistically shouldnā€™t be there, but thatā€™s just my personal opinion obviously. :wink:

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I can tell the difference just fine between WAV and FLAC. I check these things ā€˜blindā€™ with my Missus so I know Iā€™m right. FLAC to WAV is free as are many other ā€˜upgradesā€™ :grinning:
Thereā€™s fun to be had in tying different things though, itā€™s part (a small part) of the hobby but most of my time is spent just listening to music rather than twiddling.

Opinions can only ever be personalā€¦

Thanks Guinnless, I now understand why so many members are committed to .wav and transcoding flac to it.

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As long as you realise that as @Mike-B explained, a FLAC is basically a zipped WAV file, they carry the exact same (bit-identical) audio data. If the difference is audible ā€˜just fineā€™ on your system for both you and your missus, then something curious is happening which might be worth investigating further.

Also see: https://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WAV-FLAC.htm

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@litemotiv
First Gen streamers /usually/ sound better when fed with WAV files. The decoding of FLAC files generates a small amount of electrical noise and this can lead to a slightly harsher sound.

This is an electrical engineering issue not a computer/mathematics one.

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Guinless is not alone in noticing the difference between WAV and FLAC on a 1st gen. Naim streamer. Naim built them to work with WAV (Naim servers were initially WAV only until FLAC support was added later) and always claimed that it was likely to give best performance.
If you have a current gen. Naim streamer this is more than likely irrelevant, as it is if you use Roon, BubbleUPnP server, or a server that can transcode FLAC to WAV on the fly.

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Maybe this is one reason some people report a degridation in sound quality after a firmware upgrade.

If the majority of the beta testers are using servers that transcribe to WAV on the fly, sound quality will optimal when using servers that transcribe to WAV on the fly.

So, this could result in sub-optimal sound quality if a servers doesnā€™t transcribe to WAV on the fly.

Do Naim ask the beta testers how their servers are serving data to the streamers.

DbPoweramp and my PC. I will be buying a Synology NAS, but I thought Iā€™d wait till I got a few CDs ripped first.
I was also thinking that serving it from a Synology NAS as opposed to my PC should make it sound even a little better, but thatā€™s just a guess. I can put the NAS very close to my system and use a short and better cable. A BJC Cat6e.

Also, Chris, Iā€™m using a TP Link Ethernet switch. Will it really sound much better if I get a Cisco 2960?
Iā€™d appreciate your opinion.

OK, but what server are you using? I ask because some servers allow you to take files saved in FLAC and convert them to WAV as you play them. So you actually can have your cake and eat it. You get the benefit of reduced file size for your music store, and the improved sound quality from WAV being sent to your NDS. Any possible noise generated by the conversion process is kept well away from the DAC as itā€™s done in the NAS (or whatever computer you use to run the server.)

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I guess Iā€™m not sure what the server is in the signal chain. I loaded Asset UPnP so the Naim App would find my PC.
So itā€™s; Naim App/PC/TP Link/NDS. Where is the server. Iā€™m not usually this clued out ā€¦
Thanks for your help.

The server is Asset UPnP running on your PCā€¦

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Using Nova and Atom, I cannot hear a difference between FLAC and WAV.
Hence FLAC for me - I think tagging/metadata is better on FLAC but I may be out of date.
It is certainly easier for me as I listen to music while on the move fair bit so space matters (when taking across to my mobile).
Of course even within FLAC you might have to consider the level of compression :slight_smile:
I donā€™t as my cloth ears would clearly not hear the difference.
You could have FLAC and then transcode to WAV before before handing it over to the streamer (BubbleUPNP with server can do this). Used to do this with my Linn Majik but again not sure that it made any difference.
Having less/no youngsters around and being able to locate my speakers as I would like have made the biggest positives for me.

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Thanks.

But the OP has a Star, so weā€™re talking about 2nd generation arenā€™t we? I suspect youā€™re unusual in being able to distinguish WAV from FLAC on new generation boxes. Golden ears indeed, can I borrow them some time? :blush:

Roger

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