Completely disagree, and if it does, only for a minority. Research, neurological, social, educational, have consistently shown that children are products of their environment, and the big influences of a child’s environment: parents and schools. It is there a spark must be generated yet social and economic disadvantage and poor educational policies and curriculum have an overwhelming impact on young people and their view of the world, hence their interest. In education we have been moving away from a within child model of development for the last 15 or so years. Take children with special educational needs (a term I hate by the way) which at the middle of the last decade was so high as to be an embarrassment (schools were proud to advertise that their SEN rate was about 25 or 30%). Now high SEN is seen as a result of poor teaching because of the understanding of how environmental factors contribute to a child’s education, taking the blame away from the young person.
Mike,
Ludicrous or not though it happened to a colleague of mine. Teens are naturally rebellious, it’s certainly true that the more you tell them not to smoke the more likely some of them will get curious and try it! The schools are between a rock and a hard place - if they don’t warn of the dangers of self harm or drugs then they are accused of not protecting kids, if they do run lessons on those things a small number will get curious and try. It’s a complicated issue.
I knew nothing of self harm back then, it was simply never discussed at all and certainly wasn’t on the syllabus! To my knowledge not a single one of my large group of friends ever tried it or even knew about it. Amongst my Daughter’s peer group however all of them have tried cutting themselves, one has seriously attempted suicide by ingesting massive quantities of pills. Another has tried to kill herself with some pretty severe cutting. You could deduce from that any number of things from that - maybe girls are more tempted by this stuff where the lads are more inclined to down some booze to get them over a tough patch, maybe the schools constantly banging on about this stuff does give it greater kudos, maybe the pressures on kids are greater/different nowadays - I don’t honestly know.
What I do know is that amongst my mates in that 1980’s public school environment we mostly cured our depressive episodes with a combination of loud rock music, cigarettes and booze. I’ve quit the cigarettes nowadays but the loud rock music and a few glasses of red or fine malt still seems to do the trick!
Jonathan
Amused to see on this thread people being judgmental about people being judgmental 
Just this thread?
If we weren’t stag would there be to write about?
Whilst I do agree with many of your other points:
Inordinate? Do you think it a good idea to revert to the bigotry, prejudice, hatred and discrimination of the 70’s and 80’s? It’s education about these issues that has brought about a much more tolerant society. In fact we also need intersex conditions adding to the list to add acceptance and tolerance there as well.
It sounds as though you were quite lucky in that.
‘tempted by’ - wrong expression try ‘prone to’, much closer to reality.
not really - see next comment
Yes.
I always do.
But then I am 7 foot tall 
Saved me an entire post there. Thank you.
Were you going to put a turtle(American)/tortoise(English) on it?
I appreciate your detailed reply to Jonathan. The issues my children face are different to many of those encountered by me when young. Most of my university students are very empathetic to social, sexual, and cultural difference. My children have chosen science A levels, but the state school has a programme of personal and social education which they benefit from. My daughter is in the second year of studies as a midwife and naturally her course and hospital experience takes her into emotionally difficult areas. Many young women suffer from anxiety and relieve this by cutting. It is a taboo to talk about this, so I think we all benefit from spaces where we can be better informed without being judgemental.
Beautifully said.
I don’t think the content of education in the UK has ever been particularly good or bad.
I often feel I learned very little of value at school in the 80s and early 90s other than social skills and micro politics. I had part time jobs from the age of 13 onward and learned most of skills I still use today to put food on the table from those and from self study. There was a huge amount of encouragement at home for educational play and a similar belief that school was more about having somewhere to be than a place to be educated.
Obviously there were the odd very gifted teachers but contact time was limited. I’ve taken this experience to heart with my own kids. I hope their schooling will be fruitful. But I’m not surrendering responsibility to it. If I think they should know where Belgium is (and since three of their cousins are Belgian they should) or anything else I think is important, then I should teach them.
If anyone is looking for comparison though, my wife, who’s highly educated with an MBA, and did cram schools from 8 to 18, always shocks me with her lack of knowledge about things like, why the sky is blue; what temp is absolute zero; that water conducts electricity; just basic science stuff everyone learns at school in the UK. Where she grew up in Japan, it was all reading, writing and arithmetic and zero biology, chemistry or physics. Her parents didn’t think it was their job to educate so there are gaps. I often blurt out “what on earth do they teach kids in this country?” But of course the answer is the same as in every country: they teach what they think is relevant to their society and, the education system’s view of relevant may not match my view of relevant.
I’m not sure it matters that people don’t know why the sky is blue and what temperature absolute zero is. In fact I’m sure it doesn’t. It also doesn’t matter whether people know where Belgium is and who Prince Philip was. What does matter is that young people grow up as good citizens, are confident and resilient, are kind and thoughtful, have a moral compass and have respect for others and their way of life, regardless of who they are.
You only have to look at pre ww2 examination papers to see how low kids’ education has sunk in terms of expected general knowledge, and especially science.
Even when I left UK secondary school in the late 70’s the rot had set in somewhat, and it’s certainly gone down a lot since. No doubt there is an argument for saying kids can look it up now we have the internet, but the brain is somewhat similar to muscle in that you use it or lose it.
It’s very telling that universities are now looking to do more entrance exams and a lot of students have to complete basic English and maths modules before starting many non-arts courses. I’m sure the kids are as bright as ever, indeed they should be better than my generation given the amount of lead in the environment from fuel when I was young.
It would be so heart-warming for kids to be taught that maths, engineering and science are good, and can be fun. Certainly they are not leaving secondary school with this attitude in any numbers. I don’t look down on the kids of today, but do lean towards pitying them a little for a lack of basic knowledge, the attainment of which could offer them so many extra doors in life.
Another reason for this may be the increase in non English speaking applicants Universities now receive.
Hi Neil,
I wish that was indeed the case, but people I know teaching at UK universities tell me it’s due to a lot of UK students no longer having the required skills for their degree course, this despite exam passes.
This may also say a lot about the grade inflation which seems to have got out of control. I suspect that’s only part of the issue though.
I don’t think that’s a new thing.
My daughter had to sit a written exam to get into Oxford fifteen years ago. Having passed that she had to attend an interview. I remember her telling me almost everybody she spoke to after the exam, said they didn’t even understand the questions, even though they where all predicted to get A*’s in their exams.
I’m not convinced schools should get the blame or credit for depth of children’s knowledge or skills in a particular subject. I’m sure it’s down to natural aptitude, therfore an interest in that subject.
When my daughter was 7, her school said she had a reading age of 13. When she was 14, she got into trouble at school because she was correcting her English teachers spelling/pronunciation. So, she obviously didn’t pick up her knowledge from school and I doubt it came from me, as I suspect I’m borderline dyslexic. 
The most pressing issue I found in education is the impact negative recollections / observations have on recruitment - teachers and support staff. We’ve all been to school and so bring our prejudices to bear.
Working in education, and schools particularly, is immensely rewarding - teach someone to read, help a young person who is having problems or teach centripetal force properly (centrifugal force does not exist!). But the profession needs good applicants and stories about how awful schools / children are just put people off. Like many jobs, working in education can be exhausing and is not for everyone, but as @Clarkeboy eloquently explained, the environment in which young people learn is so important - great school staff are absolutely esential to this. Wouldn’t it be great if more people came forward to contribute?
ChifChaf, before the Second World War only a fraction of the population took School Certificate or matriculated. Grammar Schools were selective and we know now that results were adjusted so too many girls did not gain entry.
I have read English Literature papers from the 1950s which invited candidates to discuss Milton’s Latinate sentence structure! Obviously this assumes they had a sense of Latin. Clearly this would be a good discriminator between otherwise able candidates.
School examinations are taken by a wide range of students.