Which UPnP server supports seek mode? / Audirvana on NAS

Hi All,

Which UPnP server software runs on a NAS that both supports seek mode and can transcode music from Qobuz to 24/196 .wav files for 1st gen naim streamers to digest nicely over the ethernetwebs?

Based on posts in this forum I’m adding a NAS to my home network (Synology DiskStation DS118) to replace the BubbleUPnP server running on my PC or Phone as a longer term more stable solution for streaming with my NAC-N 272. BubbleUPnP doesn’t support track seeking so I am wondering if an alternative does. I am hoping I can draw on the collective forum experience of UPnP servers to determine which one to setup and save a lot of trial & error…

As always, any advice much appreciated!

I always assumed this (lack of seek support) was a “bug” on Naim’s side and not a BubbleUPnP issue.
As far as I thought, Bubble does support seek, but gets a failure response back from the Naim renderer.

See: Change seek position on Naim renderer doesn't work (#8) · Issues · Jean-Francois Dockes / upplay · GitLab

Asset will allow for re-coding of higher bit rates but as far as I can see, it will then serve all HD material to all renderers at the lower rate.

Did you mean 24/96 or 24/192?

Asset can do track searches.

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The key word in the op’s question is “qobuz” with the result that the only upnp software I know works with qobuz is bubble.
Eg jriver media center can do what you want …… except it doesn’t support streaming from qobuz.
If you want to stream hires qobuz to a gen 1 muso then you will likely need to put another bit of hardware in between; roon plus a raspberry pi / usb dac running roon bridge for example. Or a streamer such as the Cambridge audio mxn10 which supports qobuz natively.

If however you are talking about streaming your own files then the aforementioned asset jriver etc will work.

I assume you mean downloaded Qobuz content you own and that you want to transcode for an earlier streamer to play? If so, Emby server is a good option. It has quite advanced settings allowing you to control multiple aspects of the transcoding quality. I use Emby for my video library on my home network, but you can also create Audio libraries and it has a nice app you can use on multiple platforms as well as using upnp if you want to use the Naim app.

Linn Kazoo and the new Linn App (which are not servers) can do Qobuz track searches.

The subject however is “Which UPnP server supports seek mode?” and Asset does that for local files and can transcode also. It does not do it for Qobuz as stated unless they are Qobuz downloads.

For streaming there is a Qobuz option to limit resolution but you would still have flac files not wav.

The OP issue results from the known limitation of 1st gen Naim streamers which is why I have Naim amps but not a Naim streamer. Biting the bullet and replacing the Naim streamer may be a simpler option.

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Agreed, I would be surprised and very impressed if any upnp software could transcode Qobuz streaming content on the fly. As you say Paul, best to limit the bit rate of the tracks, purchase them for download so they can be transcoded or ultimately change streamer. There are some affordable options out there nowadays that do not have to break the bank.

Thanks all for the replies.

Qobuz (24 bit 192 hz .wav) can be streamed to the NAC-N 272 fine using the Bubble UPnP software (which is also doing the transcoding). My Android phone works as the control point using the Bubble App or Linn Kazoo except that the phone seems indifferent to any setting I find that stops it interrupting playback after an hour or so. Restarting the phone remedies the problem for while then it does it again (same thing with Linn Kazoo). I don’t think it’s an issue with the 272 as it’s connected to the network switch via Ethernet cable and the music will keep playing if using my PC to host Bubble UPnP server instead.

Options seem to be (listed by ascending cost / descending awkwardness):

A: Continue using Bubble UPnP on my phone for four quid but have to keep restarting the thing. This almost works apart from the interruptions and ‘seek mode not supported’.

B: Use a NAS to run Bubble UPnP or Roon (unless there is anything else that can both stream Qobuz and play music saved to the NAS) instead of leaving the PC on all the time. NAS obviously serves a dual purpose of being able to host other files on there too.

C: Spend twice as much as a single bay NAS and buy a network bridge (Primare NP5 etc.)

D: Double the cost again and stream from a 2nd gen QB in another room (others have advised against this already).

E: Double the cost again and buy a new streamer like the ND5XS2, at which point might as well chop in the 272 for a 202 or 282 but I do like having a preamp with DAC capability & Radio.

F: Sell the whole setup, buy SN3/NDX2.

So far my level of frustration equates to trying option B, I just can’t justify F at the moment.

I think I might have the answer after some exploration this evening, still no seek mode supported so answer is no to that, but in terms of a working NAS streaming solution:

I discovered BubbleUPnP no longer works on the Synology NAS DS118 I bought after updating it to the current DSM 7 software installed (neither does something called Docker which was a suggested workaround… Doh!).

Fortunately whilst looking into alternatives I am happy to report that it is not just BubbleUPnP that can be used to stream Qobuz now. In February this year there Audirvana Studio started supporting streaming from Tidal & Qobuz. Expecting a long-winded technical saga/playing with settings to get everything playing nicely like with Bubble (proxy settings, gapless, stream quality, transcoding settings etc), I simply installed the right (free trial) version of Audirvana on my Synology NAS along with the companion control App which, logged into Qobuz through, the DS118 and my NAC-N 272 were automatically identified, I tried playing a hi-res track and it just works, sounds good, the 272 stream info shows it as .wav too. It almost worked too well, I am highly suspicious.

I guess the catch is it’s yet another monthly subscription cost on top of Qobuz though like Roon but at least it is a bit cheaper.

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Have used Audirvana for 12 years. Its worth every penny.

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That’s good to know! Only been using it for three hours but so far so good, I find the GUI more intuitive that Bubble or BluOS to so think I’ll grab it at the end of the trial. Don’t mind paying a bit more for a quality service/product if it works well (I guess that’s why we’ve all bought Naim stuff in the first place).

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That is very good news! So is all the processing done on the NAS? Does that mean it also has a DAC in it?

The NAS has no DAC in it. What the NAS does is serve the music in digital format over the local network to the network player (in this case my NAC-N 272) which has the DAC in it. Although the NAS is doing no digital to analogue conversion it is transcoding the information from Qobuz to PCM format and sending it to the network player. I won’t pretend to know exactly how it is doing this but running a program like BubbleUPnP or Audirvana is what facilitates this capability.

I believe the technical terms are UPnP Server (the NAS) connects to the UPnP Renderer (the 272) and is controlled by a UPnP Control Point (my phone).

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Good stuff, that makes sense. I confused the digital to digital transcoding in the NAS with the digital to audio conversion the DAC does. Pleased you found a solution, sounds like a powerful application.

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Audirvana has also very good support when you run into issues. Highly recommended.

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I am tempted but I think I will stick with Minim as it is working nicely for me and I am very much enjoying not paying a monthly subscription anymore like I used to for Roon. I do think the subscription business needs to stand back from things. Whilst an individual subscription might only cost £5-10, you only need to have 4-5 and before you know it things start becoming expensive.

My prediction in the world of TV is that someone will eventually aggregate all the services together and offer a discounted package for them all. A bit like Sky or Virgin do currently for their offerings. It has become too much. A bit off topic so I will leave it there!

No TV here. Subscriptions only to Qobuz and Audirvana for music and Adobe Lightroom Classic for my photography…

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With a rooted dislike of subscriptions, I do not stream online but buy my music, and stopped with version 3.5 of Audirvāna, which is still working well for me but I’m not using it in UPnP mode. Unfortunately I don’t think it is possible any longer to buy the non subscription version of Audirvāna so this is no good for the OP. (For similar reason I am stuck with an old version of Lightroom for photography)

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I think subscription based ‘infrastructure’ systems like Roon and audirvana are like the drug dealers of the audio community - harsh, I know. But, objectively, they really offer little that open source systems can’t provide for free. Their added value is little more than the cachet of being a member of a so-called exclusive club. Am I wrong?