The metadata comes from an online database, it’s not stored on the CD itself.
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I remember a factory trip to Naim, some years ago, where we had discussions with Naim’s then top people and the Core was mentioned. As well as having restricted Metadata in its rips, it cannot convert its own WAV rips to FLAC, which is something the UnitiServe could do. Anyone ripping in WAV will end up with rips that are pretty much useless on another storage device.
We got blank looks at the time, and nothing has changed in the seven or so years since its release. Naim just don’t appear to see it as an issue. Posting on here will achieve little as Naim don’t read the Forum routinely.
Better metadata would of course help, particularly with classical, but the market is small and I bet the metadata meets the needs of 99% of the Core’s purchasers. So why would Naim make a big effort to develop something when they don’t see a problem.
If extended metadata is critical to someone, surely the way to go is a NAS with MinimServer?
CDs don’t contain any actual metadata…It’s basically a lookup service to a database (eg Rovi, or Apple using Gracenote etc etc) that pulls in the metadata, using the basic CD ID as well as track info re play length etc….I used to be under the impression that CD’s contained unique reference codes that were used, but Paul at SongKong informed me this isn’t actually the case….
I actually think MusicBrainz works well and is a great database (a modified version of which SongKong uses) and the Core does occasionally pull in meta from there for me, though not always, which I’ve never really understood……It definitely leans in favour towards Rovi……
I don’t think there’s anything substantially’wrong’ with Rovi’s metadata…It’s just the Core’s pathetic use of whatever data and tags it gets….! 
SC
As HH says, there is no evidence that the metadata is contained within the CD. My alternative ripping process involves my MacBook and iTunes/Music and that uses Gracenote as the source for metadata. In my experience it has been near faultless, so the Core would instantly have considerably better functionality if it just accessed Gracenote for the data.
On Naim support for the Core, it seems there is a policy to sideline the product despite it still being sold. It’s not uncommon for Naim staff to explain practice on here but, despite requests it hasn’t happened. I have similarly got minimal response from emailing Naim support.
The quintessential question is….”How many sales have Naim lost with the Core, as opposed to time taken to improve the software?”
Let’s not forget that other manufacturers with smaller operational and financial resources seem to be able to achieve the aforementioned observations.
Not sure Naim could afford it…I also believe it’s highly restrictive with its licensing and terms, again something Naim may not wish to be a part of….
But I agree, I’ve wondered the same in the past, but it was some communication with the SongKong developer where I learnt a little more re Gracenote…Would be nice, but really can’t see that coming about….
SC
PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISN’T TRUE!
I’ve had no end of grief due to Naim’s use of a non-proprietary form of WAV. I finally decided to rip in FLAC assuming that FLAC, unlike WAV, would be useful on other platforms, particularly ROON. I don’t know why I was stupid enough to assume that Naim would do the reasonable thing and produce a standard form of FLAC!
At least SongKong could rescue me in WAV, if only I could figure out how to use it. But it’s unlikely to do FLAC too. I guess I’ll have to go back to WAV and see if I can rerip my FLAC files.
I think that’s a typo and HH meant to write WAV rather than FLAC.
I use my Star to rip and store the rips in a USB-attached SSD. My plan was at some point to get a core but it was always a low priority. Now that I have got Qobuz it is an even lower priority. I wonder if part of the reason Naim hasn’t prioritised developing the Core is due to the rise in streaming. CD sales have been plummeting and whilst there is a bit of a revival, I suspect people who buy them will want a CD player rather than a Core or similar.
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I have always suspected that would be the case. I have just had a browse online and it seems that Rovi offer 16 million audio tracks in its database and Gracenote claim 100 million. There’s no doubt those figures are not to be regarded as secure but it might give some indication of the reason for my comparative experience with Apple and Naim. Of course Apple have a lot more resources than Naim.
I am intrigued by the thought that the Core software is lacking in the capacity to get the most of the databases that are available.
By the way, I was told by Naim support that Rovi may not be up to date with new releases.
To be honest, they could probably do with a regular full width non Uniti range New Clasic Core, that effectively looks like a 333 with a CD slot for ripping; same streaming platform as the other NC streamers; and more digital out connectivity options for non Naim DACs. Positioned as first and foremost a transport, with ripping convenience.
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But it’s not just CD ripping is it…It’s a Server. A storage device. And your music Database. I haven’t purchased a CD in ages, excepting some box sets and new special editions etc etc, but I’m (still) in the process of ripping my CDs of old…but mostly these days, it’s HD files I’ve purchased and then store onto the Core……They will mostly contain decent metadata, but it’s not to say I don’t like to tweak it here and there and unify it to my liking/desires (another thing that SongKong is very good at doing, even if just used as a base point)….
SC
Sorry, my mistake. FLAC rips are fine.
Interestingly Innuos now do a server only version of their ZENith Next-Gen.
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But at a price……. The PC/NAS/ripping software becomes more attractive by the day.
ATB, J
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Yes but I’m intrigued as to whether a dedicated audio server would noticeably improve the sound? I’m good with my NAS but for metadata😬
I don’t regret getting the Core as its advantages outweigh its limitations - in particular I can’t fault the SQ, although I may simply lack comparable experience - my comparison being Core/ND555 with CD555 (each with a single PS).
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I totally agree re SQ. it really does have a body and drive to it….
And as I’ve said previously, I love the mechanical design, the interaction (re ripping), its looks etc etc (some optional rack mount ears might have been good, but not a huge deal)…It’s a ‘Naim’ product, who I fully subscribe to, designed and optimised for an audio role and fits into a Naim system lovely….I love it for all those things….
But it’s so frustrating with the metadata handicap……
I don’t regret mine either, especially as I got it for about 1/2 RRP in the Oz fire sale……Would I pay full price for one, I’m not sure I would….Melco and perhaps Innuos really would be a strong temptation for not much more of a stretch……
SC
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The tracks are ID:d by ISRC as metadata on the CD. It contains country code, (record) company code, year and track. And track have nothing to do with the CD-track. It is a unique identification of the recording. So it doesnt necessarily ID the CD if the recording is re-used (but it is not uncommon to make the ISRCs uniq per CD).
You normally need to be registered with the national organisation of rights holders (IFPI Sweden here). You should register every recording with an ISRC (you get ISRC codes from IFPI here in Sweden), everyone that should get paid when the recording is used. So if a radio station in, say, Belgium reports a track with the country code SE the ISRC is sent to IFPI here in sweden and and they can lookup in their database and so on.
If you look in a MP3 etc, you should find ISRC metadata-id on a commercial recording.
If you only have the soundbits Apple has made an API of the Shazam service they own. There is also a similar opensource-service called “AcoustId”, if I remember correctly it cannot handle bits of audiodata like shazam, you need to process the full track. These two services are useful if you rip LP:s or Audio Cassettes.
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I didn’t know that. So where, for years, I’ve been blaming CDs for having incorrect or inconsistent metadata it has actually been the fault of whatever online database(s) dBPoweramp uses.