I know there already are many things written about the 282 DR vs 252 DR. But I still wander if someone can tell something about an experience of the low bass handling of the 252 DR vs the 282 DR.
Recently, I changed my speakers from Harberh 5 HL to Graham lS5/5. And I experience to much low bass, wich is overwhelming in some recordings.
I did try to work on many things, from speaker placement to different cables to different settings on the phono preamp and switches for the NDX2. But the low bass overwelming stays. Voices, trumpets and guitars are beautiful. Although, sometimes it seems that a beautiful voice gets a little compressed (difficult to explain).
Well, I have a 300 DR with a 282 preamp and highcap DR. Now I wander if a 252 DR, would be able to handle the low bass differently. With the low bass, I mean: There is a bass tone, that at ending leaves a little continuing wroom (also difficult to explain).
Some describe the 252 as being more detailed and some as dull etc. I would like to know if any of you experienced a difference in handling the lower bass, exchanging the 282 to 252. As I am not sure if dull or detailed is also a different control towards the low bass.
I really need less overwelming bass.
I went from a 282/SCDR to a 252/SCDR and the latter has much better grip and refinement on bass. After that I upgraded from 250DR to 300DR and the bass got even better. I have Dynaudio Confidence C2 speakers and they can be difficult to deal with in terms of low and mid bass. Both 282-252 and 250-300 upgrades improved all that.
252 bass is very refined and stable, and never overwhelmed; rather, it enhances how the rest of the frequency responds, if that makes sense. IOW the combination of 252 and 300 result in excellent bass control and grip. So much so that I also use a pair of REL S/510 subs to take bass response down to 20Hz.
A long decay time at certain frequencies sounds very much like a room issue rather than electronics (otherwise a difficult speaker with inadequate power amp unable to control it, which I’m not suggesting is the case). If the new speakers go lower than the old that could explain why it wasn’t a problem before. You say you’ve looked at room layout - if speaker and listening positions are optimal and that does not cure then furniture placement and whether there is enough absorbent material. This thread may help: Speaker placement guide
Also: The Listening Room Reality
I’d very much agree with Innocent_Bystander here. A 252 will definitely bring more definition to the bass but I am pretty certain it won’t solve the problem which really sounds like a room issue. I sympathise as I have just moved house and I am struggling with a similar situation. In my case the floor is the main factor and I’m exploring solutions. I used Gaias on the speakers in my last house due to a suspended floor but they have little effect in this one, where the floor is chipboard on batons over concrete . It reverberates as you walk across it. Speaker positioning in this case has no impact on the problem frequencies, so I will continue to explore remedies.
The 252 is a really great preamp and may help a little with your issue. I just get the impression the problem lies elsewhere.
Thank you for responding. I may be you and innocent b are right. I moved the power supply from the rack, placed it on a more solid underground with ansuz Darkz underneat it. And the problem is not solved. But it is an improvement of 50%. So I will have to look at several things. Since no dealer nearby has a 252 on demo, it would be complex to experience. And buying a young secondhand would be a gamble, and unnecessary expensive if it does not solve the overwhelming bass.
Thank you for thinking with me, and sharing your thoughts. I guess, I have to look at two different things. It is not certain the 252 will solve the issue. As Steven and Innocent b also have some thoughts that could be correct. And maybe it is both, managing the room and the elektronics.
If it would be easy to have the 252 on demo, I would know. But with the new classic range, focus is more on the new stuff instead of the former models
The Graham LS5/5 are huge sounding speakers—that 12” driver brings a lot of low end to any system. They require a room with a good amount of space. I have the LS5/8, similar sense of scale and low end extension, paired with 282/HCDR/250DR and in my room they’re very balanced. Could be the environment more than the electronics.
Probably the preamp works as expected. You’ve just doubled the volume of the speakers and your room is flooded with bass.
I had the very same when having a tiny room I douched a 5si into a sub. The sub was sold with no mercy.
Another time when I had such issue, is when I moved from Spendor 3/5 to 3/1. I have been experiencing this issue, however, I changed my listening habbits:
low volume listening - big speakers handle this easily
added some space around speakers
put them on a stand
always close doors, windows, etc, to have better listening environment on the low volume
May I ask you why you got rid of Harbeth? Aren’t they cool enough?
I had spikes. With the spikes the total sound is great, accept for the very low bass. Yesterday I went topick up a demo set of isoacoustics GAIA 2. Just installed them. I do not know what myopinion is after a while. Bass is more controlled and listening is sort of less intense.
It is less bright and also feels like the sound is sort of demped. But these feet do not demo, but disconnect from the floor.
On the other hand, it is difficult to form an opinion in a very short time. I liked all little sparkling details, wich now seem less, although are still there. Less sharp, maybe🤔
I think you are right. I had the speakers on demo for 4 weeks. And was so happy. So it is a little strange, that I got focused on the some things, like the low base, now I am the owner of the speakers.
With the isoacoustics it seems to be more controlled. I think, I would have to let it go for some time, and just enjoy music, and live with the good and lesser things without to much focus. And after a longer time see, if I have to change things. At this moment it feels a little as if I upgraded, but maybe downgrading is better. I hope not, because i5 would be an expensive adventure
Something else, the LS 5/8 is a more difficult speaker to controle, and needs to have more space, according to Graham. So there is some good hope.
I replaced the Harbeth SHL5+ with Graham LS5/9 several months ago and found the bass of the latter to be too much. The mid bass sounded unnatural and boomy, sticking out like a sore thumb. The speakers are on the original lightweight open frame stands and spikes. I replaced the spikes with Isoacoustics Gaia and the problem was resolved. Much natural sounding bass.
I’m not sure about the LS5/5 but it looks like a much larger model than the LS5/9 so I suspect the bass issue you are currently experiencing is worse. I would suggest focusing on the speakers rather than the amp. Try isolating the speakers from the floor.
The 5/9 I listened to, and is more similar (to my ears, in that listening room) to the Harbeths.
Yesterday I installed the isoacoustics. And the problem was gone, as also the beauty of clear details. Voices, stayed almost the same, and the bass sort of compressed. Today I turned back to spikes, and accept for the low base, I was impressed about the rest of the total detailed sound.
I moved the speakers a little more from the back wall, and turned the speaker a few millimeters toothed outside. I am close to solving the problem.
And I now feel it is nice to play on low volume, and hearing al detail and prat. So I need to work a little more, and than go back to really enjoy the music again, rather than focusing on the hardware. And live with it for a while with all the good things and little flaws.
It appears that the spikes are not the main problem in your room and you may prefer it to the Isoacoustics Gaia. Interesting. Good luck in optimising the system. Yes, it is surely useful to work with what you have rather than thinking about changing amps. That would be the last resort if all else fails (having said that I don’t think a 252 will help with your problem).