Exactly. The replacement pot was better and good enough, but not perfect with progressive unbalance starting at ~7:30. Now it is dead center all the way down.
Interesting. So could just be a case of running in, who knows?
Mike, did you also find yours sorted itself in time? How long did it take?
Cheers
Mine seems okay at the moment. It’s a second hand unit I’ve had for s few weeks. It does vary a little between recordings and volume, but so does my hearing it seems.
In my case, I had the new unit back from the pot exchange in mid-November. Was turned on since and played every day. Not sure when it changed, but am sure that it was still noticeable at least in January.
Are you sure your balance control isn’t now offset slightly, just enough to correct the volume offset at very low levels but unnoticeable at normal listening levels?
Yes. As mentioned many times above (not sure how often I have to repeat it. [But please see edit at end of the post] )
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The balance changed gradually ever more when a certain threshold was crossed, with one channel dropping out. As mentioned, it is very very obvious when it happens, it is not slight, a channel disappears. I could compare it with the dealer demo.
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It’s not a new thing at all, I am surprise by how many members have never heard about it. Many other forum members reported the same behavior, with various pres and integrateds. E.g. an SN3 thread from 2019:
- The issue and its variance was confirmed to exist with these Alps pots by Naim. Richard confirmed it here, as one example:
- My distributor was aware of it and had the unit returned to fix it. A more carefully selected pot improved it so that it was not a practical problem anymore, and somehow became perfect over time
Edit: I guess you asked about more about the change in behavior now. Sorry, I misread you post, I was distracted and thought the same question yet again
But yes, it was very obvious before and it is now not there anymore at all. Balance pot position is centered as well as I can without it having a center snap. I always made sure of that in my test as to not confuse me even more
Just noticed my 252 lets through noticeable volume when turned to zero / 7 o clock, cd channel. The balance at zero still seems spot on though! A new problem I hadn’t noticed in 5 years of ownership… ggrrrrr, not.
Mine too, I believe it’s normal (very low but noticeable)
On the sound signature I don’t have the experience to make comparisons. It’s been my biggest upgrade so far, which makes sense from a pricing point of view. If I had to choose a word to describe the improvement it brought I would say finesse.
Definitely sounds like it’s too polite by the sounds of this comment Mike!
Ok. I did read, and understand, what you wrote previously. I was just trying to think of a plausible explanation as to why your slight volume offset at low level, after your pot had been changed, has now, several months later, appeared to have corrected itself. The thought that the pot tracking has somehow changed due to a few months “run-in” doesn’t sound very likely.
Let my try and state my suggestion again, in hopefully clearer terms.
Perhaps when you first got your “repaired” 252 back, you tried the volume control at a very low level and found the sound balance to be very slightly out. Since then, you might have had occasion to move the balance control around and even though you’ve returned it back to what looks and sounds like centre it’s at a very slightly different point to where it was when you first tried your repaired 252. The very small difference in balance control position (compared to where it was when you tested a few months ago), might explain why when you try a very low volume test now, you’re finding it to be spot on.
Please accept my apologies, I did misread your post and edited mine while you answered. I was distracted and thought “not again”
Thanks for restating, I had got it in the meantime. It is indeed odd, but I don’t think what you describe is the cause.
As I was unaware of the whole thing when I got my 252, I was quite confused by it. So when investigating I made very sure that my balance dial was as perfectly centered as much as I managed, and always kept doing so when returning to the issue, both when it came back and also now. Without a snap, it is never possible to be 100% sure it’s exactly the same, but when turning it with the remote, the eye seems to quite well discern between the LED moving up and starting to move down on the other side.
As the original issue was never slight but a very obvious dropping out of one channel, even with the new pot though at lower volume, I don’t think that a minimal difference in balance pot position could be causing what I am hearing now, which is essentially no difference in balance across the whole range down to the very end.
I can’t come up with a better explanation than “burn-in”. Which I would intend to also cover mechanical differences caused by use, after all such a pot is just conductors being brushed along another conductor. My guess is that the cause for the behavior in the first place is imperfect contact at the very end of the range (possibly even both ends, but nobody ever tries what happens at the top end). I’d say it’s not impossible that the parts adapted slightly better to each other by use/wear.
When you put it like that It seems like I had this issue with another Naim amp I had prior to the 252. Perhaps it was one of my old Naits. I moved the 252 on in 2010 so maybe it was the SN I had before it, I didn’t like that amp for other reasons.
Yes, it’s a funny world this Naim stuff and forum folklore. In my system, the 252 is nothing remotely like being too polite, boring, lacking attack or whatever. It’s simply well above anything I’d hoped to achieve with this hobby.
And I’ll concede that, yes, the change in pre-amp from the SN2 makes a massive difference, as I’m still using the SN2 as a power amp.
change in pre-amp from the SN2 makes a massive difference, as I’m still using the SN2 as a power amp
Mike, I believe we both love our SN2 and thought it a fantastic integrated amp. With that said when I recently added the NAC 282 I found your comment to be quite appropriate “change in pre-amp from the SN2 makes a massive difference, as I’m still using the SN2 as a power amp.”
Not taking away a thing from the SN 2 but the separate Pre Amp brings a lot of improvement to the sound! .
I’ve only recently acquired my 252 and was not aware of any balance problems at low volumes.
However, I thought I’d check whether there was a problem so I pressed the mono button and sat in my normal listening position.
To my surprise the RH speaker was louder than the LH one. To check this out I moved my head slightly to the left and the sound balanced out.
It seems that positioning together with, I presume, room acoustics maybe responsible for some of the problems reported rather than technical problems with the 252.
In my experience, after a months ownership I’ve found the 252 to be a brilliant pre amplifier and a significant step up from its 282 predecessor.
It seems that positioning together with, I presume, room acoustics maybe responsible for some of the problems reported rather than technical problems with the 252.
Not for the problem that I described.
It’s usually down to the ALPS Blue pot - the best for sound, but its weakness is a slight channel balance variance that can exist right at the beginning of its travel. It’s one of the reasons why Naim also provide a balance pot (which also helps where the room contributes to an imbalance between channels). It’s usually not a problem though because at such low levels such any imbalance should be irrelevant. However, if there’s a definite imbalance at normal listening levels then that is a proble…
I second your view of the 252 - once everything is optimised such as cable routing it sounds great. I never had the 282 but did precede it with the 82 plus Supercap and it was a sizeable upgrade from that.
Thanks for your sharing. I’m using 82/scdr and considering to upgrade to 252. By the way, I’m a bit concern about the unbalance issue.
By the way, I’m a bit concern about the unbalance issue.
I did not intend to make you. Most owners love their 252s, I do so much, and this should not be a reason to put you off one. It’s just something that it helps to be aware of if one happens to be affected. But as you have seen from the comments, many/most units don’t seem to have the issue, many/most of those that have it do so only at a level you might never use, it might get better in new units on its own, and if it’s new and bad and it affects you, it will be fixed. When buying used, I expect that most reliable sellers will tell you if you ask.