The Aston Martin can be a good analogy. The new ones are considered as better, with a BWW motor and quicker and more responsive gearbox. But some still prefer the old Aston Martin driving experience. Better is not always more enjoyable.
5 Likes
Have you picked up your NC250 yet?
2 Likes
To me, a reason not to have! Just as I wouldnât want to drive a formula one car, on a track let alone road. I want a car to go where I point it, as fast as I want, absolutely sure-footedly, without drama other than presented by my choice of road road, and totally reliably without constant attention. Similarly I want my hifi to play glorious music, extremely well, as loud as I want it, without drama not in my choice of music, and totally reliably without any attention. I have achieved that in hifi. Car is a bit more of a compromise because I canât justify the spending it would take to achieve and maintain indefinitely, but the compromises have very rarely let me down.
If my system did that (and not simply through playing a poor recording), Iâd move it on. Whatâs the point of a system if it doesnât play great music whenever you want? Just as whatâs the point of a car if it doesnât run perfectly every time you want?
1 Like
In case anybody wants to hear the new Naim 300 series in action, there is an Acoustica Show at The Doubletree Hotel, Chester on Saturday 18th and Sunday 19th November 2023, 10am-5pm.
The whole show is dedicated to the Naim 300 series AFAIK with some suitably good sources and speakers.
Anyone who wishes to hear the 300 series is welcome to attend.
I will be going with a couple of HiFi friends.
1 Like
Surely Naim 500 series is high-end hi-fi and priced accordingly to that.
And then there is the ULTRA hi-end hi-fi where Statement exists.
So if people try to bring in other brand ULTRA series to compare with 500 series that is not a fair comparison probably. That is just my feeling.
For example I am quite sure certain DAC is ULTRA while my ND555 canât compare with it.
But of course ND555 is the maximum I can spend on a DAC and already quite happy with it. So absolutely no issues as there are mountains higher than the one I just summit.
The Robert Koda products are built to an exquisite level.
1 Like
If the 552 really was a weak point in Naimâs range then they would have / be addressing that. The fact we hare going to wait a few years for a NC 552 suggests improving it is not as easy as some seem to think - the nice people at Naim have confirmed this and I have no reason to think they would lie.
I had some issues with mine during ownership and it had to go back to HQ and it took an age to burn in so I guess if someone listened to a 552 in a non perfect state they may come to a conclusion that it was substandard / a week point.
Our systems have multiple components and if one part is âoffâ then itâs a devils job to get to the root cause.
I have owned Naim since 1995 and been to lots of demoâs / events over the years but Iâm yet to hear a 552 disappoint.
Each to their own of course and no one is forcing someone to love one / hate one - my ears and sense from reading this forum and talking to my dealer is that the 552 is one of Naimâs all time iconic products.
No issues for me if one person thinks itâs a week point, in fact I celebrate the fact people are bold and try different paths - I nearly did this once but realised Naimâs sound hits the spot for me.
Gary
2 Likes
You are getting a bit confused with what i am trying to say like a few others have.
I havenât said it a weak point in naims range like you say, i have said itâs the weak or limiting bit in the 500 series. The 500dr and ND555 can do more once given the chance.
Also as said it has completely nothing to do with burn in, cable dressing, fraim, room or whatever else you want to throw into the mix.
Lastly i once again say, naim could easily upgrade the 552 as itâs been developed, working in the statement for years, and now finally finding itâs way to the rest of the range. I feel itâs more that it will be extremely close to how a S1 sounds, and thatâs probably a bit close for the price difference, plus they want to sell as much 300 series as they can before they bring out the new 500 series.
Also they have already done 2 massive launches this year, and i guess they would rather wait a while before doing a 3rd.
2 Likes
@Dunc if I can be so bold as to suggest the problem here is you are presenting a thought held by yourself as fact. No one else has stepped in to validate your thought either. I know and understand why some members have upgraded a 552 to an S1 and I myself would probably do so if funds were available but saying a 552 is a weak link because the S1 is available is not correct. There are more systems on this forum with a 552 fronting a lover level power amp and I know of no systems (I am sure there are a few) where a 500 amp is used with say a 282/252. Some people have used 555 with lower amps but again its not common.
If I had to downgrade one of my 500 components it would be the 500. No question.
I am struggling to understand (short of trolling) why you are so invested in 552 bashing. You are no longer a Naim customer and have moved on. Thats your choice, you seem on the surface very happy BUT do you miss something about the Naim sound that keeps pushing you to validate your choice to move? This maybe something almost subconscious? Technically better does not always mean more enjoyable.
I think everyone who uses the forum knows how you feel now and jumping into every half relevant thread to repeatedly say so I find dilutes conversation. Maybe re read this thread and count how many times you make the same point 
. We get it. We understand for you the 552 is the weak link, its not however a common held thought, the opposite in fact is common on this forum.
Your posts can be and in the past have been valuable but you are (in my opinion of course) in danger of discrediting yourself by trying to bang a drum that is getting no traction too hard.
18 Likes
Not yet, waitingâŚâŚit can be a few days or more than a week. Will post of course
2 Likes
Once again missing the point steve.
I have said enough and itâs eveb getting boring for me now lol.
If anything the S1 completely backs up what i am saying and is correct.
I am not trolling as i have nothing to gain from this at all, all i have done is state the facts that some, mainly 552 ownerâs find hard to understand.
I am sure if you had the full statement set up with say a ND555, the ND555 is then probably the weak point, as said every system has one, it doesnât change the way you hear it or enjoy it, but it is a true statement, and the fact better sound quality can be had from a 500dr/nd555 once you swap out the 552dr proves that, if that is using a S1 or something else doesnât matter really.
As said i have had enough going round and round on this, and canât even remember how we even got on the subject once again.
So carry on if you want but i am done, plus i have work too do.
Cheers dunc
1 Like
To the best of my recollection is that all except the first were answering challenges/questions. If people didnât then there might only be the one! Rather than just acknowledging that others have different views/experiences, some people seem to get vexed when those others offer a different view from theirs, and repeatedly challenge - inevitably leading to further statement/explanation of the opinion they donât like.
3 Likes
@Innocent_Bystander my comments are focussed on Duncs presentation of personal thoughts/experience as âfactâ. If each comment of 552 being the weak link was caveated with âin my opinionâ or âbased on my experienceâ the reading and validity of comments would change. This statement appears often in this thread either as a comment or a reply but never caveated.
More people use a 552 with lesser amps and sources than vice versa so Duncs view may not be as widely held as he thinks and in my opinion should be stated as his opinion. This is my opinion and likely is not the same as yours or someone elseâs. I am stating it as an opinion though and not for a minute suggesting I am correct!
8 Likes
But that is how most people talk in this forum (and in life) - I donât recall the majority of people who say the 552, or whatever, is wonderful caveating it as being just their opinion.
The impression I got from @Duncâs posts was not that the 552 is poor, not that it is not second only to S1 in Naimâs range, but simply that it can be improved upon and then the other 500 series components shine brighter. It is abundantly clear to me that he is talking from a position of having heard other hi end amps - and it is not clear to me that many people praising the 552 and disliking Duncâs assessment have heard any other amps at that or higher levels, many seemingly only having compared 552 with the Naim preamp they upgraded from. My impression may be wrong and a majority may have auditioned other high end amps before picking the 552, but I donât think that has been brought out in these challenges?
6 Likes
I thought that Dunc had reached this conclusion after he removed the 552 from his system and connected the DCS directly to the power amp. The reason why he didnât use this setup on a permanent basis and had the Vitus integrated was because he also used a turntable. I donât recollect whether he actually tried replacing the 552 with an alternative preamp.
To be honest if I had a DCS setup and got a preferable sound by removing the preamp and connecting it directly to a power amp the conclusion I would most likely reach is that the DCS output was very capable and that in the context of this system a preamp (possibly any preamp) was an unnecessary link in the system chain! To be fair I might take the opportunity to refer to the 552 as a âweak linkâ if I fancied winding a few people up. Only joking, I wouldnât do that!
Obviously this discussion has been going on for a while so might have totally got the wrong end of the stick. Am sure Dunc will confirm ?!
2 Likes
I guess for me the question would be, what other pre at 25k outshines the 552?
There may be many, or none, I havenât had the need to search for one.
It seems to me that in any of the Naim matched systems through the range, the next pre up in the range brings benefits. Whether I would put an S1 with my nap 90 however is unlikely, however much better it is than a 92.
1 Like
Iâve read many of Duncâs posts and I donât have anything negative to say about him or his opinion. I am certain his findings are true for him however as somebody who has tried alternative preamps, tube based and solid state in a similar price bracket, I have found the 552DR to be considerably more âengagingâ than the alternatives.
Almost every other preamp I demoed or purchased had more âdetail/resolutionâ than the 552DR. I did not substitute any one of them for the Naim pre. So IMO and IME no the 552DR is not a weak link- it just turned out to be the case for Dunc.
I am not vexed by his many posts suggesting 552DR is a weak link as I own and have chosen this preamp for the second time now. I like that this is not an echo chamber and people have different opinions.
But my last point is the biggest lesson Iâve learned in hifi. Hifi is extremely subjective. Iâve enjoyed my 30 year old NAC 52/135 system far more than modern alternatives costing ten times as much. Iâve preferred my Harbeth 30.2XD loudspeakers to speakers costing ten times as much. Iâm sure Dunc would not have had the same opinion as me being in the same rooms.
We all have our preference in what we want our system to do and what Naim has done for me and many others is engage the listener in an arresting way.
8 Likes
Finally, someone gets what i have been trying to say
Cheers innocent bystander
3 Likes
Dunc, am I right in thinking that if you didnât have the turntable you would dispense with a preamp altogether?
Well - this has been a rather interesting thread. At this point of time I might as well weigh in - and - I find it important to detail my Naim history as (unfortunately) over the years there have been many on this forum who tend to comment based purely on speculation without having ever owned or even listened to the gear in question.
Forum member since 2003. I have owned - Nait 2, Nait 5, 282,252,552,250,300,552, DR versions of both 500 series. As for source playback - Klimax level LP12 *though with Aro, and CD5,CDX2,CDS3,CD555. When Linn went digital I jumped and moved on my CD555 to Klimax DS/1,/2,/3., and Organik (which I still own as it fronts a Stax electrostatic headphone system).
Now that my ownership history is out of the way - in 2020 I moved to dCS for digital in the main system - Bartok and then Rossini + Clock.
There are at least half a dozen members of the dCS forum (and probably more) who own Naim 500 systems. For our dCS sources everyone has found that the 552 proved to be a bottleneck in our systems. I am NOT SAYING the 552DR is bad - on the contrary I have lived with mine for almost 18 years. What I am saying is that our dCS streamers are capable of a high level of detail and music extraction - the 552 did not allow all of that information to get through.
Amplifiers - once I determined I wanted to listen to my system without the 552 I decided to try out a âtheoreticallyâ better amplifier to see how it would perform compared to my 500DR. I had the opportunity to live with a uber DâAgostino S250MxV stereo amplifier for one week. To put things in perspective a 500DR is $35k in the States. The DâAgostino is $45k - and even more in the UK. While the S250 was goodâŚâŚthe 500DR was better.
I AM NOT saying the 552 is a poor performer. I am saying in the context of my system (and those of other dCS/500 system owners) we have found our systems to perform better without the 552. It remains a great preamp, the best partner for a 500 amp, however for us we have found it to be an impediment.
As for my own personal journey these last few months of experimentation have led me to âretireâ my 500 system and imminently start the move to the next part of my journey.
Best
Gregg
12 Likes