500 v 2x300 active?

Also well worth getting a bit of space between them. I have my 552 on a high Fraim above the ND555.

The SL DIN to DIN is beautifully made but in my system it stops some instrumental texture information from getting through compared to the Hiline… SL is not perfect. Like so many cable choices it’s about the balance one prefers…

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Hi Michael, I am of course not claiming that the SL is the perfect cable. There is an absolute array of cables at all price levels on the market. For me the SL loom seems to work well, and I suppose ‘ the sheepish bit’ in my case is relying on the voicing Naim R&D intended at the box level I am at.
No rights or wrong here and as always we seem to all hear things differently. ( admittedly something I’d never quite get my wee brain around, but hey…)
ATB Peter

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That’s strange as I’ve found that more texture and detail comes through with SL. Each extra step of SL (speaker cable, then DIN/XLR on the 500) just peeled off more layers. Going through records you know is quite funny at times as you hear instruments and vocals sounding more realistic than you remember before the cable upgrades.

I did wonder for a long time about getting SL cable having spent enough on the boxes themselves but now see them as important if you want to hear what those black boxes are really capable of.

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[quote=“RackKit, post:876, topic:11069, full:true”]

Like @PeterR and @RackKit I concluded that it made sense to go with Naim SL everywhere. I feel it makes for transparency.

I read a post recently asking the question whether we aim to hear sound within the ‘studio’ or the musicians performing within our room. Well neither is really possible, but the former is closer because as we all know our rooms have a significant impact as does the recording ‘studio’.

What we hear with our ears and brain is a linear superposition (has mathematical/physics meaning) of all the sound waves. In the ‘studio’ or concert venue (without amplification) this linear superposition is the instruments/voices direct and all the reflected/ delayed sound waves.

A Hifi system tries to reproduce the ‘studio’ sound at the ideal ‘studio’ listening position using the speakers in our room, and get as close to the ‘studio’ experience as possible. The reality is that the instruments/ voices get blurred and our brains don’t properly disentangle the result to degrees that vary a lot system to system room to room. Our selection and setups can be tuned to improve the situation, but essentially once information is lost it can’t be recovered.

The boxes don’t understand the music but cause loss of amplitude and phase in a non-linear way. It seems to me that it’s the mix of sounds that gets messed up when thing are wrong. An S1 is designed to do better than 500 etc but mains, rooms, etc can bring even the best down a notch or two.

We just have to do our best.

Phil

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…and that we are Phil :partying_face: Best Peter

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Cables are passive component. Across the frequency spectrum they introduce linear frequency dependent phase shifts and attenuation in theory.

Amplification/ DAC is more complex. My ‘take’ is that it takes really good boxes to follow the signal specification encoded on the source media. So if we just test with a single instrument most systems do well and we ‘hear’ the music the instrument is playing. As soon as we mix instruments/voices with different loudness it gets harder. Detail is lost or blurred, and I think of it as not getting the energy transferred to the output because of supply (mains) limitations. Some bits of the music do better than others. I have noticed a mess some years ago with Peter Gabriel’s Genesis albums manifested as his voice going a bit faint, whereas now I hear him moving around the stage.

A common response to an upgrade is being able to hear more or the presentation is different. Other terms are used such as flat when things are not right experienced as lack of texture (lower frequencies particularly) or loss of impact or sharpness of notes (mids and high). Until you hear how it should sound it is difficult to know what is missing.

Phil

PS Speakers and rooms not yet considered!

The room factor is looming in many posts. What are the effects of the room? How can they be counteracted or tamed?

Actually, I would be interested in knowing in what kind of room(s) Naim is testing its equipments. This could help us in arranging our rooms to get the best out of the very expensive equipment we buy.

I haven’t seen any information about that but may have missed it.

Does any one know?

Hi Michael, untreated anything from 40-60% degradation, yeah now where do we start… :thinking:
ATB Peter

I have kept everything to do with boxes, cables and speaker positions fixed for almost 12 months and noticed significant improvements. I sit in the same place and the furniture hasn’t moved. I wish I understood the deeper mysteries of hifi!

Phil

In your case I have to believe you Peter. It’s your experience. However you didn’t choosed the speakers which can work correctly with your room characteristics, so you had to modify it a lot.

Indeed FR, but let’s not also forget the windows! :wink: ATB Peter

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This statement exemplifies how we fix reproduction problems with different speakers. Alternatively we can try adjusting the position of a speaker or altering the room response. However, not all solutions are equivalent or have the inherent capability to recover enough of what is lost elsewhere.

In my mind acoustic panels are there to correct the room characteristics and speakers to correct what the boxes and cables do. Sometimes both approaches have a similar effect on the brain. However, different albums can affect how similar the brain perceives the degree of similarity!

Phil

This is getting very deep and complicated Phil, but is this possibly a scenario of ‘Power of suggestion’? … nah, I think I need a drink :face_with_head_bandage: ATB Peter

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I think the brain works differently when one has made a change one wants to evaluate. If one just listens at a subconscious level one can get a more honest assessment.

Phil

I need a drink too :exploding_head:

:laughing:

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Just had one…

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I should have suggested that a drink is a good way to get into the subconscious state! :frowning:

Phil

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How are things going Tim?

Thanks for asking - the system had an “off” day last week but generally faring very well. I may still have a little boom problem but that does seem to be easing. Have just been trying to clock up lots of hours on the system without listening too critically. There must by now (after 6-7 weeks) be nearly the same number of hours on my 808s as I clocked up on the dem pair

Still don’t have the SL xlrs - being cautious over the old Covid

I have noticed a few times that the soundstage seems to be wider than the speakers - is that what people mean when they say the speakers disappear?

But really missing the opportunity to hear some kind of benchmark system - have sometimes felt like I don’t know whether it’s sounding great or ordinary as it is many months since I heard a different system (apart from the atom/nSats in the loft). On many occasions with the SL2s I would get home after hearing someone else’s system (or a dealer demo or show) and think that I greatly preferred what I had. I think it is highly likely I would feel the same now but with no opportunity to check…