I run an NDS and the presentation is just nicely mellow. I don’t have a Fraim as I don’t like the look or basic design of it, either, but my NDS sits on a half inch sheet of marble, which is isolated from the shelf it’s on, and really, it sounds excellent.
There are specific genres, and/or recordings that don’t reproduce well; too sharp or too muddy, but there’s no getting around that, that I know of.
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Therein lies the rub. I did the same albeit with a 250.2 upgraded to 250dr. But here is the problem, it is false to assume the DR is the same only better. It is significantly different in a number of respects. It is basically a different amp. So discussion of whether it is better than a 300 and by how much are moot.
If you chose your speakers carefully with your 300 and then went to a 300dr, it is exactly the same as if you bought un unheard power amp and slotted it into the system and hoped for the best. I did it because so many others claimed it was a no brainer upgrade. In reality I effectively just swapped in an unknown random amp and paid the consequences.
My 250.2 was chosen with my speakers at the time. The 250dr was better but it never got on well with the same speakers. My only solution after months of waiting for the sound to settle was to switch speakers too.
In hindsight, I’d have been better off keeping both the 250.2 and the older speakers. What I have now is superior. But the cost to get there was unplanned.
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I was referring to Forum rules that prohibit discussion of other brands or any modifications to Naim gear…
Perhaps cables aren’t included.
Cables are fair game except those that carry DC power.
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Thanks!
I’m no detective but is there a clue here?
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I didn’t say you must have a Fraim, simply the way you have sited your NDS (and SN2?) may be contributing to sharp or muddy sound you hear from certain genres/recordings.
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Oh, I see. For for most of what I listen to, it sounds very good regarding soundstage, clarity, Bass etc.
I have tried setting the NDS on a few different supports, and because the frame uses glass I thought I’d try the marble, and it seems to work quite well.
I just find that there’s some genres such as new and old pop, or some of the poorly mastered classic rock that comes off a bit sharper than I’d like. I think the muddiness I was referring to was just poorly recorded or mastered bass tracks.
It probably also doesn’t help that I’m using the two Israeli power supplies for it instead of a 555ps. They’re just so pricey over here and very rare on used market. But I will get one at some point.
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Well, at least you have tried to optimise the siting of your NDS. It might be worth trying an Isoblue, or the better Quadraspire racks (the cheap ones are not great in my experience) which are less challenging aesthetically, assuming they are available where you are.
Yes, I was going to mention the non-naim power supplies, but thought we may go too far off topic. As you have mentioned them, I will add that one of the biggest uplifts I have experienced was when I replaced the non-Naim power supply I had on my NDS with a 555RSDR. An absolute revelation. I turned from being a Naim power supply sceptic to a devotee.
BTW, even a Fraim and a 555PSDR wont make a poor recording/mastering sound any better. You can’t polish a turd.
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That is all very good news. I do also plan on getting a proper support unit for my kit as well, and the iso blue seems to be quite popular so it’ll be on my list. And very happy to hear how much of a difference the proper power supply makes.
I really appreciate your particular input on this sort of thing because you have the exact system that I aspire to. 552/250dr amplification seems to be a real sweet spot from what I’ve read. I initially will add the 555ps and an used ND5XS2 to my NDS as a stepping stone, but the ND 555 would be the end game.
I’ll be moving house in a few years, and my current setup is somewhat less than ideal, and so I won’t be doing anything until I move. But my wife already knows that the above mentioned items will be eventually coming in after we move, and I am very much looking forward to the changes.
From what you have said about the 552 on other threads and the 555ps, I’m sure it will be quite amazing.
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Sounds like a plan.
I went from NDS straight to ND555, as I already had the 555PSDR on my NDS. So if I were you, on the source side of things, I would go for a 555PSDR first to use on your NDS, then go for the ND555, and don’t bother with a NDX5XS2. The streaming section of the NDS is perfectly fine.
On the amplification side, you could go for a 552 first into the power amp section of your SN2, but I think that might be compromising the 552 too much. I am unfamiliar with your Kef speakers but would assume a 250DR would drive them well. So you could get the 250DR first and connect to the pre out of your SN2, but I think that would compromise the 250DR too much. So I would get the 552 and 250DR together as much as possible. Of course if either pop up on the used (or ex-demo) market, grab it.
Finally you could consider a 282 or 252 pre amp, but if you go all in with a ND555, that really deserves a 552. Having gone through 202, 282 and 252, I would have skipped one or two of these to get to a 552 quicker.
As always, I would recommend you upgrade your source first before your amplification.
Whatever you do try to demo as much as possible, and at home if possible. I realise this might be tricky in Canada, but at least put the legwork in with a good Naim dealer.
Apologies to the OP for the diversion.
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How is it suspended?
Please show a photo if poss.
Thanks
Jim
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Yes I suppose we’d better get back to the thread topic. But I really appreciate your input, those are all some very excellent ideas, and getting a 250dr at about the same time as I get a 552 shouldn’t be a problem as there’s quite a few of those around here. And I do believe I’ll be skipping the interim units and go straight to the 552.
Home demos certainly are difficult in Canada, but I believe there’s a dealer in Central downtown Toronto that I may be able to strike up a deal with.
Thanks again for your time and input.
Cheers.
Agreed. The original pressing of Power Windows is quite engaging, I happen to find a mint copy, with the shrink wrap still on the outside, and hype sticker. Wonderful engineering done. Not too bright in my opinion. Manhattan project, mystic rhythms come alive in the room. My other rush albums, not so well engineered for sound.
Scott
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Some things we can control, others just have to live with them. Even if speaker movement is not really something you can change (much) toe-in can be done to some extent, and as someone else pointed out, try lowering the rear, so that the speaker is not firing exactly level but rather a bit upwards. I’m using dynaudio confidence 20’s and adjusting the speaker stands was a. breeze, they included a huge level for on the speaker and the adjustment is made from above so they are done in place. I’d only change either the angle or toe-in when you experiment , not both at the same time
Hi Jim. I’m currently using an inexpensive audio stand that is quite solid. In order to isolate the marble from the shelf it sits on, I placed the marble on a 3/4" bamboo cutting board, which in turn, sits on three medium-soft rubber supports. This has been the best sounding option so far, without having a proper audio stand.
My system sounds very good at this point, but I’m quite certain that it will all sound a lot better once I have purchased a proper stand, of which there are a few good options. But again, I won’t be doing that until I have moved house in a few years. C’est dommage …
Cheers.
Hi David
Thanks for letting me know.
I’m always on the lookout for effective ways to support components for better SQ.
The best thread I’ve read on this is:
As that thread shows, I copied the excellent design idea of @Xanthe for vibration isolation on basic racks.
I’m by no means an expert on this topic, but I’m not sure how your design works.
The marble slab is a massive base for your NDS.
Is it possible that the 3 rubber feet under the bamboo cutting board could make the bamboo cutting board and marble slab wobble as the rack and the NDS vibrate?
Best wishes
Jim
(sorry for thread drift)
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My stand and base for the NDS seems to be nice and solid, and not wobbly at all, and the marble slab does certainly make for a rigid base. It’s funny, I had initially thot that the unusual feet on the NDS were somewhat inferior, and I complained about them in a thread on the topic. I was quickly informed by HH (in no uncertain terms), that they were specifically designed like that to work with the suspended chassis on the NDS.
Thank you for the referral to Xanthe’s thread on the subject, I’ll have a look and make some adjustments if it seems better.
ATB,
Dave
(And yes, I guess we should stop the thread drifting)
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David, why not open another thread if you want to chat about your system and upgrade plans. You will then get others with relevant experience/knowledge chipping in too.
It is worthy of its own thread.
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