Thanks Nigel, I’ll give that a thought. It’s a tad premature for me, but I’m a bit of a planner and I do like to know where I’m headed well in advance, and other member’s experience is very helpful.
Cheers.
2 Likes
My journey re: ‘brightness’ spanned some years and found its way into the Forum on several occasions. I swapped and changed pretty much everything; several times. Most changes had a small, but cumulative effect, one way or another. Speaker positioning, eqpt isolation, dedicated mains, high quality cabling everywhere, room spec’ etc… Ultimately, nothing would have tamed the beryllium tweeter in my Sopra 2’s to my taste because it was just plain wrong for my ears. A speaker switch (to Dynaudio) instantly sorted the issue in a way none of the ‘tweaking’ ever could.
Looking back, change of speaker has always had the greatest single effect for me. We tend to get caught up in black boxes and ancillaries; perhaps because they’re earlier in the ‘chain of truth’; and less of an outlay/headache to change. They and their synergy together are critical, of course. But speakers are the ultimate arbitor and voice IME.
I agree with trying all the free stuff recommended above - because it’s free. But if your new, more revealing kit is not giving you the joy you seek, you’ve done all those free tweaks and you’re not using string for cabling, I’d suggest it’s likely that tweeter is voiced wrongly for your ears and the upgrade downstream is highlighting it. Focal is renowned for this. Some people love their top end; others loathe. For sure there are more speakers out there which handle the top end in a less ‘bright’ yet still detailed and extended way.
Last couple thoughts. You’re onto a hiding to nothing if you want to make changes without demoing everything first unless you have a shed-load of cash to lose. Associated with this, it’s also worth noting that, when reading forum comments, it pays to remember, above all else, that one man’s ‘detailed and dynamic pleasure’ is another man’s ‘ear-curdling, fatiguing pain’!
12 Likes
I really liked TQ Black speaker cables in one set up as they added a bit of sparkle I thought was missing from the Nac A5 I’d been using. Sometime down the line I changed amps and the TQ’s made the system bright sounding so I returned the Nac A5 and they turned the brightness down.
Hi brightness is very often related to room reflections where the bass frequencies start to be cancelled say from 200 Hz downwards, and upper mids can resonate…
Often a cure can be changing loudspeaker placement, or if really challenging a bit of room treatment can also be effective.
I would avoid trying to mitigate with different cables and fiddling around with the electronics etc if you have an issue with reflections as they will be subtracting from the audio performance of your equipment and the issues may reappear with small changes elsewhere. Issues with reflections can make your system hypersensitive to changes elsewhere and tweaks, and subtle changes can have disproportionate outcomes.
As often said, speaker/room coupling is probably the most important element in the chain for a quality enjoyable audio experience when using quality electronics.
9 Likes
I tried one year ago a Farad 3lps linear ps on the Etheregen switch. I found the sound a bit bright to my taste. Changing the ps solved the problem. However the problem was not there with the stock SMPS.
I heard Focal and Naim on some occasions and found the sound sometimes a bit bright.
So the brightness can have different aspects.
Permanent Waves is my go-to Rush album for sound quality in my system (252/300DR/Titan 606). I have an original pressing and the 40th Anniversary edition. Both excellent but original pressing edges it for me.
2 Likes
I will admit, that is one I do not own, off to the record stores this weekend! Thank you for spending my money, better mine than yours😂.
Scott
I guess my issue is that I was perfectly happy with the Sopra 1s with the original incarnation of my system which had the NDX and non-DR 300. So changing the speakers for an electronics issue seems slightly non-intuitive, even though it may possibly deliver the result I’m looking for.
Great album - love it!
This can also depend on your E.A.R.s 
1 Like
Yes absolutely. Some found Naim/ Focal well balanced for their ears, other not.
I do wonder how many Naim fans would have considered Focal if the business relationship between the 2 businesses wasn’t there.
I’ve never heard a Focal speaker so can’t comment. This particular brand has never came into my thinking in all the years of Naim ownership.
1 Like
Indeed…
Focal has been a prominent brand for many years, also in the professional market, but it historically targets a bit different demographic than Naim enthousiasts. Focal speakers and headphones focus more on accuracy and clarity, which are not really known as the main targets of Naim equipment (IMHO). So it does not surprise me that the Naim forum populace has mixed experiences with them.
Focal also offers some excellent studio monitors by the way at really good value for money, like the Trio6 and Trio11. They have the quality of 10K+ home bookshelves for only 2-3K in cash, simply because they target a pro audience rather than home enthusiasts. Great options if you are looking for accurate speakers in for instance a home office or close listening setup.
It’s also interesting that there is an overlap in the Muso products which have the Focal sound quality (even with class D amps) but with a slight Naim tuning. It seems they are well received by both sides.
1 Like
It’s not just a business relationship - we’ve been two brands working together for more than 10 years now, including co-developing products. I think people - especially the cynics - forget that point.
I replaced Naim Ovators with Sopra 2 - resulting in a way better sound - back in 2012, some 6 years before i joined Naim…
I also wonder if people realise that although Focal may not have been widely available in the UK until the past few years, that is not the case globally.
1 Like
As I can’t merge the two threads, here’s a link to the other thread started by the OP:
Bitsrbits, as I mentioned in the other thread, I would certainly replace any 3rd party PSUs here with proper Naim ones. They will change the performance of the equipment and in most cases very much for the worse in my experience. Just to confirm is it a proper Naim PSU you are using or not? I can’t recall whether it was mentioned one way or other.
Also, do I recall correctly from your other thread that you have the NDS sited on a large marble slab?
I once tried this as I had some thick marble shelves from a custom made rack. Under my CDS3 it did some really weird things to the sound, making what was once a sweet sounding player now have a rather brightly tipped up top end with a bit of an edge to it.
I wonder whether this may also have something to do with the problem?
2 Likes
Yes, I can totally get that. I owned NDX/252/250DR (and don’t know what a 300 sounds like). With the Sopra 2’s the sound was utterly explosive and thrilling. And utterly knackering after 20 minutes. I changed the 252 for a Macintosh tube pre’ on part of my journey to eradicate brightness before understanding it was the speakers. So, been there, done that. The more transparent and honest a system’s eqpt gets, the more the true characteristics of each element, including speakers, will impact SQ. This is what may have happened with you.
If you were reporting this issue with e.g. a Sonus Faber set-up, I’d recommend looking elsewhere. But Focal has some history in this arena with some listeners. To this day I sometimes miss that intense thrill. But not the intense fatigue! My ears, not yours. Also, I sold the Sopra’s before installing dedicated mains and really excellent power cables. These two had the greatest impact on reducing glare after speaker change. Maybe they would have made sufficient difference with the Sopra’s. I think not but will never know.
Anyhow, assuming the DR is bringing greater ‘everything’ I imagine you’ll want to keep it. Then there’s nothing for it but to go through the programme of easily-made tweaks referred to above. I hope you find an easy solution. But if not, the most expedient next step might be go to a dealer who can set up a rig with same key electronics, the Sopra’s and some other speakers known for well behaved high frequencies, as comparators. It won’t be totally conclusive because your room is different to a dealer’s demo’ room; and your mind won’t be as settled as at home. But it should clearly demonstrate the general differences available in reproduction of the upper mids and leading edges and their magnitude by changing just speakers. It’s free, too.
1 Like
My intent was not to offend.
As stated, I have never listened to or considered Focal speakers. I was only commenting on the relationship and wondering whether without it, would Focal be at the top of Naim users audition list.
Not surprised you moved away from Ovators … only joking 
1 Like
It’s funny, though - one of our friends still mentions them after all this time, ‘I loved those rosewood speakers you had’… (We had a special-finish matching Fraim at the time, too!)
2 Likes