Aaaand.....it's gone! The NDX connection to the network that is..again

Streaming Audio
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And it’s getting worse and worse.

My setup consists of NDX 1 / 282/250DR/HICAP, all bought new between 5 and 7 years ago. Worked fine, happy with the sound, especially in combination with the detailled, precise sound of the Wilson Benesch Vectors.
I can’t exactly remember when the disconnect started. Suddenly the music stopped, had to reconnect, sometimes restart, annoying but not a huge issue. Or at least, not enough to really want to investigate or do someting about it. And to be fair, last couple of years I only occasionally seriously listen to music, most of the time it’s just background internet radio. But now the disconnects occur so often that it’s even frustrating with background music only.

Two years ago the display of the NDX broke down. Was replaced at the official importer (dealer is no longer in business).

Now, what do I mean with “disconnect?” The NDX seems to loose connection to the network. There’s no way to reach the NDX, the app is non responsive (either shows “there’s another device connected” or “sorry, we’re having trouble finding devices on your network”), I can’t ping it etc.
And to get the NDX back to life either a hard restart of the NDX or a input selection → P1 tuning or P5 error code → restoring connection → press play (internet radio) will restore the music.

Again, the number of disconnects is getting higher over time.

Browsing through topics I see that I’m not the only one, I see similar issues and many immediately pointing towards the network. It has to be the network!
Which I’m familiar with (working for the largest manufacturer of networking kit in the world). And we also know that it’s in almost all cases not the networks fault.

Anyway, for reference, the internet (cable) modem is the COMPAL CBN CH7465LG-LC, which handles the DHCP duties, the built in switch is connected to a Meraki MS220-8P switch, and the NDX is connected with a Cat6 cable to this Meraki switch. Furthermore there are 3 Meraki MR33/MR30H AP’s , but as the NDX is Ethernet connected that 's less relevant. Connecting the NDX directly to the built in swith of the Compal has the same result.

I deliberately keep it as simple as possible, both networking as my wording (and off course I ran all tool I have at hand…).

What to do?

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Forgot one thing: I did a factory reset. What I notice is that the NDX was very responsive afterwards. This was short lived however, and after a couple of hours it became clear the connectivity issues were still there.

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Do any of the meraki ap units have dhcp running?

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Does the disconnection also happen when you are streaming local files?

Does allocating a static IP have any effect?

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One VLAN, one DHCP server in the entire network, static IP address has the same effect (I do have a range reserved for ESP32 based devices, so tried that). Streaming local files from a NAS have stopped also, haven’t used it in a while.

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This happens frequently to both my Muso and Muso Qb - I just put it down to being a Naim thing. No other device on my network behaves like that.

A power cycle always cures it for me.

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If this happens once a week, I can live with it. But now it’s somewhere between 10 min and 4hrs min and that’s simply annoying.

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Have you tried a different Ethernet cable, in case it’s been pinched somewhere? Also trying a separate Ethernet socket on your router?

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As mentioned, I’ve even connected to the built in switch in the modem directly. And for the cable, the cables are tested and working just fine.
Also, maybe also good to mention is that Meraki is not exactly shabby low end stuff either and that there’s some built in tooling to see what’s going on in the network.

That doens’t mean that everything will always work. For example, there’s a nasty issue with the ESP8266/ESP32 WiFi chip with Meraki and DHCP ((not Meraki’s own DHCP, also using modem DHCP, seems to be ARP request related), which can be easily avoided using fixed IP addresses.

Naim seems to use APM components though. And caracteristics are different.

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BTW, there’s two types of issues here:

  1. NDX completely dissapearing from the network: music cuts out, not able to ping, app can’t see the NDX, need to manually interfere
  2. Music or stream stops: still can see the NDX in the network, can ping, can reconnect stream in app or re-initialize input on the NDX (or press play) itself.

Anyone with the same issue and if so, what was the solution?

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have you tried wifi to eliminate possible network issues? i know the mk 1 NDX is very limited but might be worth trying - also have you power-cycled router etc and phone/tablet at same time as NDX that has solved my problems in the past

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I think you should try to eliminate as much of your network as possible to identify if you have an NDX issue. If you can I would try and have just your Music Server and the NDX plugged into a dumb/unmanaged switch (nothing else connected, no internet etc) and see if you still have same problem. I would control playback via the front buttons on the NDX so no control device needed either. You could also just use a cross-over cable between your server and NDX so no switch at all.

So all you should have on the network is Music Server and NDX (with static IPs)…if the NDX still drops out then I would say you have a NDX problem, if not, it’s something in your network.

If you have a local/friendly dealer perhaps you could borrow another streamer and see if you have the same problem. BTW what is your Music Server?

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So what kind of possible network issues are you referring to?

Off course I’ve done the obvious stuff: power cycled, NDX factory reset, app removal, changed fixed/DHCP IP address, changed network cable, tried Wifi etc.

Also interesting to see that everybody is pointing towards my network while there’s nothing to suggest that my network is dodgy or faulty in any way. It’s in fact a “not your average consumer grade network”, it’s in fact enterprise grade with tooling to optimal manage and to see whats going on.

What I do see is that the NDX is dissapearing from time to time from my network. Once a day lately, completely random. As in: happens during daytime, nightime etc. I see this because in the event log of my switch I see that the port goes down and comes up again after a second.

And no, that has nothing to do with the ports on my switch, as tried multiple ports on my switch, same result. And I tried multiple cables, both the cable through the wall as a new cable directly between switch port and NDX.

This would point towards an issue with the ethernet port in the NDX. Or, some SW issue. Because this is not the only issue, as issue #2 is also still there. Music stops, but link is up. Press Play or initialize input and the music starts again.

Which leads me to believe that it’s not the network interface. Any thoughts?

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My 1st gen Muso QB did this.

Naim sent me a “special” firmware to manually update through the devices webpage. Sorted it out completely.

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Interesting! Did you experience exactly the same issues? Or other issues as well?

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Same symptoms if I recall:

  1. It would completely stop working and drop off the network, but lights remained on as if it was fine
  2. It would stop streaming, but technically be still accessible from apps

I think both required unplugging the unit to resolve

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Same happens to my NDX, NAC-N172, and UQ1. All 1st gen streamers. No silver bullet here.

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So how did you obtain this firmware? Did you reach out to Naim support?

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My NDX-FM does the same thing. My 172 and Qute2 do not, but I only usually play from the network on the NDX.

Like you, the rest of items on the network have no issues.

Surprised I have not set static IP yet. I will try that today, with low expectations.

My crash interval is one a week or more.

Nick

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FWIW … my NDX is connected over ethernet via a switch and stays connected.
Its nothing like the problems listed in this post & the only (rare) times it has lost connection I’ve always traced it to a network problem.
Outside an actual network loss its the app that can’t find rooms.
Static IP makes no difference, unless YOU get it wrong (which is easy to do), so best stick with DHCP.
Maybe an idea to try is to remove all your routers DHCP or Static IP addresses, then power down, wait for 5mins & then restart and reinstall all the device by the routers DHCP program as new.

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