In my room the active 40’s, regardless of amplification sounded better than anything else I tried from Kudos, PMC, Focal(Kanta), Russel K, it was probably that mid range in the ATC which is just sublime.
I thought I was wedding to Naim amps with the excellent nap300DR but the active ATC just work so well with my 552 / NDS.
I added a rel s510 then a second and rel seem to work well, not only getting that extra octave but a better overall sound stage.
Home demo is king and great we have lots of options to explore.
I plan to have another go at 50’s now I have changed rooms but they will need to work in my space for me to make that jump.
Thanks Nigel. Not too bad in the grand scheme of things but a shame they didn’t implement an auto standby feature. IIRC, the ATC amp packs tend to have a reasonably high power consumption at idle, so are best turned off when not in use.
That’s exactly what I do and is what, I believe, ATC recommends. The power amp packs warm up quickly and reach full performance within less than half an hour max, to my ears. When I had a multi-box Naim system, I left the boxes powered up all the time which is what, I believed, Naim recommended. Overall, I don’t think my current setup consumes more electricity than the old one, but I haven’t measured it, so that is just a guess.
The ATC amp packs do get warm even if left idle: I know this as I have occasionally forgotten to turn them off when I am done.
The ATC’S take no time to warm up.
Mine have started to get more use since I have retired. I think the relative lack of use for the first year or so contributed to them taking a long time to get run in. Now, however, they are performing better.
In my small room, they have plenty of bass, and not at ridiculous volumes either. The SPL meter on my phone often reads between 70-80db at approximately 7ft from the speakers.
Out of intrigue more than anything while I had an electrician here , I tested my Active 50’s and they each draw 40 watts on idle . I always switch them off at the end of the day and turn them on at least 15 minutes before listening . ATC amp packs do warm up quite quickly ( 40’s faster than 50’s ) so they are at optimum before you know it .
The PMC’s look like a good Active option though , I had some Twenty23’s which were superb .
They can be brutal if you use them with wrong gear. Once again, everything matters from source to preamp and cables. I’ve owned three pairs of ATC’s in the last 10 years and when paired with right electronics, they play everything with great resolution and transparency but never get fatiguing or harsh sounding.
And thanks to the op for a great analysis, good read! I’ve owned 40A’s (now 50ASL’s) and can highly recommend them. I also came from the passives and had a very similar experience with the actives than you.
I’ve no real experience of ATC’s other than the 40A’S in particular. I agree that cabling makes a difference. Putting Titan Helios on the speakers/Supercap/streamer and CD player has helped, I feel, as has using Atlas Hyper and now Mavros digital co-ax between my Sony 9000ES and Azur 851n.
I am a big fan of the Titan range of power cables, excellent quality at a realistic price, I use two Helios signatures and two Eros cables. I once had a lengthy conversation with a chap from Kronos AV who used to work as an engineer, his view was everyone focuses on shielding and interference but the most important thing is can the leads draw enough current, these cables have made such a difference, especially when powering Amplifiers including my REL Sub.
I have mostly Helios and Helios Signature on my Supercap.
Definitely an improvement on the speakers, and, funnily enough, on my Sony DVD player doing duty as my main CD player.
i have said elsewhere that I have not suffered from “confirmation bias”, as all my Helios’ have been on offer one way or another, and have not cost ludicrous money. I am debating whether or not to add Titans to the Lingo 4 and AA phono stage if opportunities present themselves.
Would you say a 250DR or even a 300DR would equal or exceed the active amplification in the PMC? Otherwise put, at what Naim amplification level do you think the actives no longer make sense?
One more thing: have you felt a less analog sound coming from the active PMC compared to when driven by the SN3? Class D vs AB and all that…
The main problem with actives is the cabling. With active speakers, what you gain in terms of lower box count clutter is often lost by having twice as many cables go to the speakers, often from different directions.
I find that the argument for having one speaker cable run to a speaker is often more compelling than having one signal cable plus one power cable from another direction.
For that reason, I think there are a lot of scenarios where domestic harmony is better served by having a power amp located with the rest of the gear and bulk of cabling in one place than by having no power amp but more cables out in the open.
What a thoughtful post ratrat! Thank you, it has made a great thread.
I can only lend my hearty endorsement of the Naim-ATC pairing. The first time i was ever moved to buy a brand new piece of kit was when Hawthorne Stereo changed the 282/250 stack over from some nice Harbeths to demo SCM50 ASL’s for me. All of us in the room were slack jawed, and i took a deep breath and the 50’s home the next day. Never looked back!
Soon trading my 250 for a 252 preamp I had my first inkling that the ATCs were ruthlessly faithful to more than just the recording and the reputation for needing to be cranked up is not quite the point.
My memory won’t recall all the steps I’ve made but every upgrade since has been faithfully rewarded by these speakers. From matched parallel runs of heavy ga. mains wiring and double 10’ copper grounding rods, AVOptions and Furutech power, an English Eight switch, to the magnificent addition of the second 555PS on the ND555, and changing up to a 552DR what i have found is that my noise floor just keeps dropping and more delicacy, timbre and velvety nuance is the reward at spl’s as low as 40 to 60 dB! This was nothing I ever expected to achieve. I am listening to Charlie Haden, My Love and I, on the Tokyo Adagio 16/44 recording on Qobuz/Roon this moment avg 45-57dB and fully satisfying in my late night (with spouse sleeping in the bedroom directly overhead.) Plus, i find that well produced higher 96/24 or 192/24 recordings are especially fine at these low SPL’s.
Incidentally a wonderfully deep and wide soundstage has benefited most from interconnect upgrades including burndies …when the audio engineers bless us with great work, that is.
Next i added a pair of the original REL G1 subs and have never looked back on this either. Users with ATC 100’s or 150’s seem as happy, but i will never know as my well aged knees can barely beef around the 50’s, so bigger towers are out for me.
Finally this journey did lead me to track down a well traveled pair of Anniversary 50 towers just to see if their discrete components amp packs were worth it. Their mileage got the better of them quickly and a trip to the US distributor Lone Mountain put me back listening to the original SCM50s quickly. On return they had the new tweeters as well. But this gave me a terrific chance to A:B compare them with the Anniversaries (now SE series configuration, I believe.)
Yes, I am happier with the higher spec amp packs and new tweeters, but have no complaints to listen to either. At this level the drivers ATC produces in house, and a separate amp tuned to drive each one just cannot be improved to my ears.
Your mileage may vary and destination may finally be different, but i have enjoyed every step of my journey since discovering my active ATC’s.
My dealer demoed PMC’s for me a few times, but i always found i prefer the exacting fidelity that makes the best of the nuances of a cable, a recording, a room and the extraordinary qualities of our beloved Naim kit! If anyone here has put more effort into active speaker comparisons up the Naim progression it will be great to hear.
Enjoying the music …and this community. Thanks to all!
Great question….
That’s the bit that fascinates me too.
In the demo’ room, thinking about the possibilities, I’d already developed a simple idea…
Also, expressed again in an earlier post…
Personally, no experience of listening to those same speakers with a NAP 250 or 300. Although, having been introduced to active, I’m curious now to see what better power amps might do - maybe the passive alternative - as suggested in the OP.
Now know of at least two cases where 300 users have opted for active speaker solutions instead, including the one case above.
In the past week, been doing some reading, to better understand the two active solutions auditioned last week.
PMC Twenty5 series active module
The PMC approach is two class D amplifiers rated at 100W, one for each drive unit in the two way design. Resulting in 200watts per channel.
The crossover, matching to drive unit, is selected with the “model selector” connector.
ATC SCM40A active pack
My thoughts were the ATC solution was maybe more accomplished, when comparing the two speakers. But, given the cost differential, that might be expected.
Hi @ratrat What a truly superb original post! And a very interesting potential new direction you are taking. Will be reading your progress with great interest.
Your new approach coincides with a recent PMC evening I attended at a local dealers last week. The system in question was by choice a minimalist combination of NSC-222 and PMC twenty5.23. It sounded fascinating. Punchy, engaging, dynamic, very open and clear with a broad deep soundstage. The transmission line bass was simply tremendous and underpinned everything beautifully - superb.
The most pleasing aspect being that the sound seemed to have a much wider dispersion than normal, without the usual locked in sweet spot for the stereo image that seems to plague many a new speaker. A pet hate of mine.
Hearing these PMCs was quite refreshing actually, as I’d heard the first stand mount versions of the anniversary Twenty5 range when they first came out quite a few years ago, and I was then really disappointed due to their glaring high frequencies (my perception), but this version truly sang and sounded much more balanced - fabulous in fact.
Not sure if it was due to being the active model, or the Naim 222 cleaning things up a little - more experimentation needed I guess. But it would be a fascinating experiment to compare this active system with the 222/250 and the passive PMC twenty5.23 variant.
I also didn’t mind the extra cabling either, as the demo pair were connected to rather thin pliant cables that didn’t seem to intrude that much into the space.
But, there’s always a compromise! I did find the presentation a bit ‘full on’ and wondered if I could live with that exciting sound when listening long term. Plus, the whole concept of active speakers really does lock you into one mindset, where there’s little choice of playing and experimenting with other power amps and speaker brands in the context of building a system. Alternatively it makes for a VERY convincing holistic great sounding solution with very few boxes.
