It might be worth testing the system again on the original house circuit, to see how that compares with the streamer and 282 running of the dedicated mains?
I’m going to leap in another direction here. The only other time I have heard of anything as weird as this it turned out that the speakers had an issue and more specifically it was an issue with the coils and baskets. Temperature was the issue and essentially the coil had sustained damage for reasons I don’t recall and wasn’t moving freely until the temperature rose to an unhealthy level after some hours of use. System user perceived that slight freeing up as the point the system came on song whereas in fact it was the specific point things were beginning to get dangerous.
My recall was that this was an item in the letters pages of the now deceased Hi-Fi World. It was also 15 to 20 years ago. I’m afraid I disposed of all my copies when it went digital. The digital copies remain searchable but I fear they don’t go back far enough.
Nothing I’ve thought of fitted the scenario, ditto none of the discussions so far on here. I had never heard of this phenomenon with speakers, but it is the first thing that makes any possible sense. I’ve no idea how long it takes for speaker voice coils to heat up (and possibly the magnet assembly around them, as it could be expansion of the metal to enlarge the gap), but the higher the volume setting the quicker it would be. This suggests a way for the OP to test - does it settle down quicker if played a lot louder?
Morning Mike totally understand the issue you have mentioned, in fact I went to this idea a few weeks ago and returned my speakers to PMC for a service/test , I explained my issue, they found there was a problem with one of the midrange drivers which they have replaced, so they have been given a clean bill of health and as we speak they are on their way back to me.
When they emailed me with the problem I thought we had found the issue but maybe not.
My original thoughts were it was a speaker problem and as the voice coils warmed up so the sound did the same, at the time it made sense, plus I thought for what they charge to test and inspect it was totally worth it.
I can’t believe the pair of speakers in place at the moment have a problem as well but it maybe possible, it will be interesting to hear what happens when I get them back in the system.
Morning Mike it’s on my to try list amongst a few other ideas
It is possible that what the speakers are seeing is incorrect. Were that to be the case there could be many causes from faulty amp to speaker cables, and I’m claiming zero expertise here, but it would then be an issue which reoccurred on different speakers.
My Naim dealer once brought a box for box entire replica of my system with them and we spent an entire day pulling one cable and box out at a time. It’s one of the most educational experiences I’ve had. Three separate issues were identified.
Hi Mike, you could be correct, there could be more than one issue.
I think it’s very easy to not notice slight changes in a system especially as it naturally ages and also buying pre loved can be a challenge as well, but then buying new isn’t always a guarantee of success (my wife says I’m a pessimistic s#d😂).
This is a great hobby and I do love music just sometimes it can be a bit of a trial especially when you’re having a few hiccups!
Speaker are arriving back on Thursday so will see how everything sounds when them back in place.
Hopefully with a bit of luck plus the added help and support from forum members I will get to the bottom of my troubles, they say the best things never come easy😉
So just an update put some music on this morning and the beautiful wide sound stage is present straight away, a little bit of edge but literally first track.
Yesterday I switched inputs from cd to tuner which is where the TT is plugged into played a few tracks and the 282 sound signature appeared even after switching back to the cd input (streamer) everything good, played the TT at higher volume levels,not sure if this had an effect.
So my thoughts are is the cd input iffy, it’s a 2004 vintage and would have thought has probably had a lot of use over the last twenty years?
I have cycled through the inputs just to see if I can detects anything but nothing really, no interference or anything unusual.
Thinking that the switch might be iffy or the board/connections on the input panel?
Anyone got any thoughts or can think of any other reason for this to happen?
My other thought was to put the streamer into another input, maybe aux1 or swap it too the tuner input and put the TT on the cd input, anyone got any thoughts, all replies very much appreciated.
I believe that the TT will require a phono input, whereas, the CDP or streamer can use any standard line in input.
Sorry didn’t word that very clearly should have mentioned phono stage to tuner input not TT to tuner input.
Just wanted to know if I could use other inputs for my two sources, thanks.
I think as the signal is coming from a phono amp, then it is the same as a line level input, (as no additional earth lead), so can go into any line level input.
As DG says you can use any line input with your sources - ignore the labels.
Quick update my system has seemed to have settled into the sound signature of the 282(wide sound stage) for the last few listening sessions, so I’m hopeful that cycling through the input buttons may have been or possibly still is an issue but for the moment thing seem relatively fine-ish.
PMC’s are back home and setting in complete with new midrange unit, so a little while before fully up and running.
Still struggling with hardness/aggressive edge generally, will improve slightly with an extended listen and also very track dependent but probably a lot fewer tracks sound how I would like it, seems to be relatively okay at low to medium listening levels but as you increase the volume definitely gets more edge and aggression not the most relaxing listen.
It’s very frustrating, thought I had put together a pretty good balanced system.
I keep thinking do I need to add a 250dr hopeful that it may add a bit more body/smoothness to the sound?
I need to work out how to end up with a more for want of a better word refined sound or some way of taking some of the edge off the system.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Try borrowing a 252 for at least a listen. I always found the 282 a little ‘lively’.
Interestingly, I have a similar problem to the OP with my CDX2.2/NDAC/XPS2/PMC Cor/ PMC Twenty5 26i system, where things only sound right after about 2-3 hours.
Wondered which PMC speakers the OP has, as he mentioned their “mid range unit” on a number of occasions.
All very frustrating, but over 45 years in the Hi fi industry has taught me never to throw money at a problem, but work through it methodically, however painful this can be !
The OP’s profile says PMC Twenty 26. I do recall various people raising concerns about harsh treble from the earlier Twenty series, though not all owners, and it seems likely to have been in part room related (room mitigation), though of course other system components could play a part. Playing around with positioning (listener as well as speakers), toe-in, and adding room absorption especially at first reflection points may help. But whilst such harshness may be belated to speaker output level, it shouldn’t change over tge first 4 hours of play.
Morning KLF3 interesting to hear you have similar warm up issues, my son has always maintained I have the wrong speakers, his argument being they are too large for the room and playing across the width of the room rather than along the length doesn’t help, my wife also thinks they are too large for our lounge.
My line of thought was to put together a reasonable front end then if that didn’t give me what I wanted to swap out the 26’s for something smaller, I think I’m reluctant to move them on as I will never be able to afford a speaker of that level again but I do think having reached the level of front end I have it should sound better than it does at the moment.
It’s a bit of a challenge, as the system has moved forward I have felt the benefits of the upgrades which have also highlighted the issue so maybe my son is correct in his thinking, as I have read a few times on the forum that members have found the earlier twenty series to be harsh.
Going to double check everything over then hopefully form some sort of plan.
What are the dimensions of your room?
I am not convinced speakers can be too large for a room per se, other than when their size makes them are so physically imposing as to be overbearing, which of course will differ for different people and rooms. (Or of course if they leave no room to squeeze in with them!) But regardless, whilst in general terms beneficial for bass response, larger size does not make speakers harsh (nor affect settling time each time turned on).
Room dimensions are 5m x3.5m so pretty small, I have no desire to add any form of room treatment (a bridge too far) plus I think I would be divorced.
I wonder if the combination of a few things are compounding the problem, the PMC’s do seem to respond to higher volumes so perhaps the combination is just not working as well as it could.
I have thought to just try the speakers firing down the room away from room boundaries to see what effect that has.
Just to add PMC say the speakers are fine and are up to spec for the model, what ever the cause it needs correcting as it’s not enjoyable as it is.
My friend who is not into Hifi but enjoys music said it sounds too sharp and shouty.
It has been suggested that moving from a 282 to a 252 maybe a better option as the house sound of a 282 is of a lively nature but as much as I would love to have a 252/supercap set up that is financially not doable at this moment in time.
Though not a particularly small room: a UK estate agent would describe as large! UK! When I had my IMF RSPM speakers one house I lived in had a room of those dimensions, though with a 2.7m height (higher than houses built in the past half century. They sounded great in there so your issue is certainly not speaker size. I had them firing down the room, and the room had a very large very thick rug and soft furnishings with heavy curtains. As I mentioned, some people found the PMC Twenty series tweeter to be harsh, though may have been in rooms with lots of hard/reflective surfaces not softening the sound - some searching of the forum may find threads discussing. I think it was resolved in later models. If that is the problem the only solutions are changing the tweeter/speaker or room.
Changing speaker positioning might change things, and certainly no harm spending some time trying. If the room is very reflective with lots of hard surfaces then changing that also is likely to improve the sound: you indicated that room treatment is out of the question, however treatment includes things like adding a carpet/rug if you don’t have one, while it is worth being aware that you can get absorption panels for walls printed with a range of artwork, even customised with a picture or other image of your own.