As I’ve mentioned before, daisy-chained switches work on a better in= better out basis. The first switch cleans and retimes the signal, improving the feed into the second switch, so the output of the second switch is an improvement over the first. But this only works well if the second switch is superior to the first in terms of noise, timing and power supply stability and impedance. Two of the same switches in series will give an improved sound, just less so and an inferior switch following the first switch will give an inferior result. If you chain 2 switches and can’t hear much difference, try reversing their order.
4 Likes
Don’t lie, Jim, if it was yours it would be on Fraim.
1 Like
I am indeed a loyal Naim fanatic.
But I use Quadraspire racks!
I just love the simplicity of them.
1 Like
Just put my sole remaining Cisco 2960 between my BT router and the EE8, connected with BJC 6a cables avec ferrite chokes.
It sounds smoother and tighter than before.
If that’s self-kidology, I’m perfectly happy as it still sounds cleaner and better. 
6 Likes
Holy mackerel, Graeme.
My system is on fire tonight.
Must be that Cisco shuffling the ivories of voltage into shape before they hit the hifi.
I daisy chained 3 Ciscos once upon a time, then a 2960 into the EE8, but ended up taking the Cisco out.
Many thanks for nudging me to try it again.
3 Likes
I would dig one of four of my Cisco 2690s out and give this a go but I really do fear that SWMBO will defo bring the men with white coats in this time around.
1 Like
That’s great to hear!
G
1 Like
Mine is able to hide away at the back of the rack unseen. Plus, Mrs H has had me down for the men in white coats for years.
She’s waiting for the right moment.
G
3 Likes
Hmm, dunno. Last week I grabbed a 2960c from fleabay for a modest cost and stuck it in the ethernet run between the router and the Allo Signature streamer (driving nDAC).
I’m not sure I believe what I think I’m hearing! Maybe it is time for the men in white coats……
3 Likes
Hi 
…
Then you should try the English Electric 8switch,.or even better the Ediscreation Silent Switch OCXO (see picture).
The latter gives a dramatic difference in sound quality compared to the EE8.
This thread has prompted me to do the same thing as you. I’ve just ordered a cheap’ish 2960c from flee bay and will stick it between router and EE8 switch. I’ll be interested to see what happens?
1 Like
No that is misguided unless you want to add more coupled noise to the streamer which of course can improve the sound to some tastes… certainly more noise can make the resultant sound feel more organic…
You need as long a lead as possible between switch and streamer ideally between 20 to 100 metres and ideally Cat 5e or other fine conductor cable, but 5m of Cat5e may be a good compromise with a coupler to your favourite boutique cable for the last metre for rf stub loading tuning (noise shaping) on the streamer. This way the losses are higher, the coupled noise energy is lower in the streamer, and the frequency makeup of the voltage transitions is reduced… all good things to reduce noise coupling. With fibre it is a different consideration, typically very short runs are best avoided so as not to overload the transceivers, but other than that with multi mode there is no benefit for longer runs.
But yes to the OP daisy chaining with these audiophile switches is recommended by me, I do it with my Naim streamer. Everyone of these so called audiophile switches I have seen and the one I own look the part and look pretty, I guess marketed to us audiophiles, but only comprise very basic and elementary data network switching capability so can’t prevent network noise… all they can do is reduce physical connectivity coupled noise including the serialisation clock on the fibre/twisted pairs. (So as to reduce coupled phase modulation noise power.)
Using a switch like a Cisco catalyst or similar in front of the audiophile switch can reduce network noise by providing the necessary network filtering from multicast group address gratuitous broadcasting that your streamer otherwise has to partially unnecessarily process. Less processing in the streamer is preferable… certainly if with your streamer wav sounds preferable to FLAC for example.
I do find decoupling the DAC from the transport streamer via SPDIF or USB3 far simpler and the most effective at noise mitigation however.
But bear in mind network considerations themselves DO NOT affect the sound quality… they simply alter the Ethernet and network characteristics to the network streamer and it is the streamer that in dealing with that affects the SQ. ie different streamers may respond differently with respect to SQ for a given set of network and physical characteristics.
6 Likes
Great, thanks Simon. I now have an argument to put to the men in white coats when they appear!
G
1 Like
I followed this advise a year or so ago and it has helped me create a very good sound from streamed music.
I:E
Sky Router / 1m Belden Catsnake Cat6
Cisco 2960 / 30m of above cable
EE8 / 1.5m Chord Music Ethernet
ND555/ 2 x 555P/S
2 Likes
Indeed… though it depends which men in white coats you are talking about 
2 Likes
Cool… the 30 metres will be best between EE8 and Streamer. The link length between 2960 and EE8 is unlikely to be relevant. The key thing is the segment length that couples to a streamer with a DAC built in.
So get 30 metres, coil it, then use a coupler to your ‘chord music Ethernet’ and put between EE8 and streamer… the coupled noise will then almost be certainly now less in the streamer (though this will have affect on serial clock phase noise) … whether you prefer the resultant audio with lesser digital noise is another matter however.
Remember sometimes a degree of digital noise is preferable. There is a great example. The Naim DAC; it used a firmware for many years that wasn’t particularly optimised… but created a lovely organic analogue type sound. Naim upgraded the firmware to make it more efficient, I think to add some new capability. The efficiency of the code was improved, the processing noise profile per second of audio would have been effectively reduced. To me the resultant new audio sounded cleaner and possibly more detailed… but it was less enjoyable… it was less analogue sounding.
1 Like
Thanks Simon . On it now!!
Now I have to consider where to put/ fit my Core which is on the FRAIM and connected to the EE8 with a length of Belden Cat6 
I would put the Core some distance away… does it need to be close to your Hi-Fi?
1 Like