I think love-hate is the wrong way to look at it. Over the years, I had Thiel, Dynaudio and Harbeth. All well respected brands. I struggled with all of these in my very difficult room. Did I hate them? NO. when I moved to a Naim system I ruled out Dynaudio even though the dealer I returned to carried the line. I auditioned the Spendor A4 and A2 and Focal Aria. I chose the A4. Luckily they have been great in my room because home auditions are not part of NYC audio. Sometimes assembly of a well functioning system involves some measure of luck. Maybe we should be talking more about how luck factors in.
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I have lowly B&W CM8 S2s - had them since 2016. They do sound much sweeter after my upgrade to NC 222/250.
I do plan to upgrade my speakers though - this year hopefully - and I am unlikely to be able to afford any of the 800 series. My room is a little small for them too! I might listen to the 702 S3s though.
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Audience all B&W that are UK made.
Can you specify why you think those made outside the UK wouldn’t be worth auditioning? As I think that’s only the 800 range, which @MrFixit indicated are outside his budget.
I’ve been running B&W 805 D4 for just under a year now.
My demo shortlist over a period of 2 weeks for each set of speakers was as follows.
B&W 805 D4
Kudos T505
Audiovector R1 Arrete
All on their own dedicated stands where available.
From the first track I knew the 805 D4 were the speakers for me. I find them completely engaging.
The other two contenders offered stiff competition and though excellent, ultimately didn’t grab me like the 805 D4.
In the Satin walnut veneer I also think the aesthetic is great to boot!
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What does that mean?
and there are not older speakers also? does anything has to be brand new and expensive?
There are, both those made in and outside the UK. Can you please clarify why you think the latter shouldn’t be auditioned?
I would never consider making purchases of significant value (like high end gear) from certain countries, because of the risk of promoting products possibly made with forced child labor.
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Could you offer a brief insight on the differences between the speakers. How did the B&W 805 D4 grab you the way the others did not? Is it more to a subtle nuanced delivery, or it’s the 3-dimensional presentation where the others sound more 2-dimensional in comparison although there’s more detail etc. Or the B&Ws sound more dynamic while the others less so.
Love my B&W CM1’s with Nait 5i and CD5i for many years.
I think that the reason why B&W speakers cause such widely differing opinions is that they are ‘inefficient’, so require an amp with huge reserves of power to drive them properly.
Am I right in thinking that there was once, 40 or so years ago, an active B&W loudspeaker with Naim amplification built in?
Well Graham 800 series has sensitivity level of around 90 DBL which is considered efficient say compared to speakers in the mid 80’s. If you look at the magazine reviews, most large loudspeakers, such as Wilson, Magico, Kef etc they generally have a dip in impedance to about 3 ohms around 80 to say 120 hz. This does require an amp with plenty of current. So B&W is certainly not unusual in its power handling requirements for bass heavy recordings.
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At 90dB/W the 802 (and possibly others in the range) is of above average sensitivity (efficiency). “Huge” reserves of power are needed for any full range speaker to play at realistic levels because for the same sound level bass inherently requires a lot more energy to move air and the lower a speaker goes the more power it takes to drive it when music contains low notes (I think that in simplistic terms, halving the frequency doubles the movement needed of the diaphragm for the same sound pressure level, and hence double the amp power). This applies to all speakers.
Leaving efficiency aside, if the speaker impedance at some part/s of the sound spectrum drops significantly below the rated average, an inadequately capable amp won’t get the best out of them. I don’t know how B&W speakers are in this regard, but there are many speakers that are thus “difficult to drive”.
My own view is that it is predominantly the sound character of individual speakers that affect people’s like or dislike, and there is often some commonality within a manufacturer’s range. But I don’t get the impression that B&W is particularly less popular than many other brands.
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B&W quote the minimum impedance in their specs. I think it was about 3.5 for my 702s2 (nominally 8 Ohm).
I liked the 802D’s on a home dem way back in 2006 so much that I bought a pair. Then upgraded to 802D2’s in 2012 and remain very happy with them in my system.
So I have been an owner of B&W speakers for 18 years and have never thought of changing them.
Never say never, as if I were to upgrade by system then potentially I would look at the speakers as I continue to love the music from my Linn LP12 and Naim amps and have no desire to change these as they sound just right to me. Although, if a shed load of money came my way I would look at a Statement S1 but after saying that I would be tempted to buy a Martin D45 guitar - which would be cheap compared to Hi-Fi!
Richard
Hi Ryder,
There were a few area’s where I felt that B&W 805 D4 excelled compared to the Kudos or Audiovector.
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The diamond tweeter is superb. High frequencies are sparkling, but not harsh. However I could see this may not appeal to all.
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The way the speakers can truly disappear and just present the music. This is my benchmark for a really well designed 2-way stand mount.
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Image placement is also first rate. A little time spent on set up paid dividends here. But that could be said for most speakers.
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If you’re after sonic fireworks these deliver……but they do need a certain volume to really start to come on song and the amplifier needs to be able to deliver. I believe the NAP300 DR handles the load demand well.
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The Kudos & Audiovector had their strengths. If I recall the Kudos midrange was particularly impressive. I cannot recall too much on the Audiovector, but I wanted to give the ribbon tweeter an audition.
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Price and aesthetic was the final of consideration.
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Are B&Ws a love/hate speaker?
No, just hate in my experience. I cannot stand them. YMMV
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I have an older set of 805 - Maserati. They are so open, dynamic, clean and image incredibly. The diamond tweeter on top brings a clarity and energy which effortlessly delivers the rawness and emotion without becoming harsh.
The low frequency output for such a compact speaker is frankly bonkers as well. Take your time with room set up and they literally disappear. I’ll only change mine for D4 Signatures.