I have one vintage mercedes benz and i have not driven it since the start of the pandemic.
1 Like
Here you are:
Smax = £a+(x+y)/100 where Smax = max spend, x & y are respectively the values of the two items the cable connects, z is an appropriate value for percentage and a is an appropriate constant. I suggest z=1 and a=£20. This is open to debate!
Although… rethinking about this, the specific example was USB cables. Given the imperfections of the USB transport method, at that level, the same money would be better spent on moving away from USB. Most of the noise originates from the USB control processor on the receiving end so a cable cannot really help with that. Bulk-Pet USB is a game changer but almost no DACs support it and absolutely no hardware transports. Having compared regular ASIO USB versus Bulk-Pet, I’d never bother with USB again unless the latter.
To that end, I suppose that money for that cable is bonkers. Not the price tag so much as the limitation of the connection and the fact the money could be used to remove the problem entirely.
3 Likes
Interesting. One would expect (or at least hope!) that if on a high quality DAC this would be controlled in some way (though my knowledge doesn’t extend to what/how!)
I am not sure which noise it is meant.
The other end of USB will have it’s own clock, and and this clock is not related to audio clocks, it is only used to transfer USB data packets between two RAM buffers. Then audio clock will fetch data out of another RAM buffer that contains audio samples unpacked from USB data packets.
Basically, the DAC side has two clocks - USB/MCU clock and audio clock separately, unless it is some really poor implementation.
1 Like
This is nothing to do with the clock.
There is a processor on the USB controller that assembles data packets into the stream. On regular ASIO, the packets are small and the processing more intensive. On Bulk-Pet, the packets are several times larger and the processor does far less work less often, resulting in less noise from the processor.
It is similar to jumbo frames on an IP network. Moving from MTU1500 (standard) to MTU9000 massively reduces CPU load on systems pushing high traffic volumes. It’s the same principle. Reduce load on the USB controller processor for the same volume of data.
I have a Bulk-Pet DAC. I’ve compared. There is a lower noise floor via Bulk-Pet driver mode without a doubt. So much so that when I changed transports to one without Bulk Pet support, I ditched USB in favor of coaxial SPDIF.
2 Likes
I see, so you mean processor noise. In any case, a decent DAC should copy the incoming data to its own (reasonably large) RAM buffer.
Is there any peer-reviewed publications in digital electronics that supports the fact that copying inbound small packets resulting in higher process noise? Or is it just your observation?
There is a white paper yes. A peer reviewed paper no. As there is no peer reviewed paper for DR or in fact most things that come out of the private sector.
Here’s a link to the presentation ITF gave to Japan Audio Society in 2017. スライド 1 (itf.co.jp)
So far Luxman and a few other high end Japanese makers are the only main adopters.
FWIW, ITF are not an audio company at all. They are a small engineering firm and audio was selected use case for their Bulk-Pet protocol.
1 Like
I don’t think that excessive expenditures of this type are an issue at all as long as one balances personal acquisitions of this sort with some generous charitable donations. I don’t believe you can afford one if you can’t afford the other, and it’s important to assist those who are !ess fortunate.
2 Likes
thanks, but i think it depends on the DAC, some work well with USB async input, some don’t. The Bulk-Pet technique may help, and that remains to be seen.
I tested the linn klimax/dsm3 with hqplayer & usb input, and it sounds pretty good (to my ears). I could have lived with this setup, but the simplicity of wired optical ethernet connection wins.
Drive fast, take chances
1 Like
Everyone seems to need something to nerd out on, Hifi and Guitars being mine - but I have friends who are classic car guys, or Golfers, or Road bikes, boats whatever - and every hobby has its snake oil and outright f***wittery when it comes to product. I’d never been critical of anyone’s choices it’s all pretty harmless but there is some stuff that makes me cringe… The most expensive audio cable (Jorma - 3.5m speaker cable) on Trade me (which is New Zealand’s eBay) is $50,000 dollars so about the same as a complete 252/supercap/300 set up…
3 Likes
Price is soon forgotten if quality remains! Like many here I don’t tell friends the cost of anything I buy, partly embarrassed and partly I don’t like to talk money!
Gary
2 Likes
I think in general the price of a Chord Music cable is a bit bonkers. I am not denying that cables sound different and I have some experience with Chord Sarum cables. I have formed my own opinion and that is that just because something is different doesn’t mean it must be better. But I have no problems with Chord or anyone buying a Music cable. I am sure the difference it represents is a good one!
What is more bonkers is the price difference of electricity in Norway these days. Where I live, north-west-ish, today we pay 0,0023 euro per kw/h. In Oslo they pay 0,393 euro per kw/h. About 170 times more. And of course, it’s because somebody forgot to upgrade the cables between the north and the south.
2 Likes
One can apply all these metrics to anything. It’s a terrible topic because it all comes down to how much money one has. Money is one of the great social dividers.
1 Like
In my view the point at which it becomes bonkers is the point where you are spending money and not getting any real benefit from it. That is an intensely personal issue and will therefore vary greatly from person to person.
I recently spent nearly £2000 on three Powerlines. They made a huge improvement to my enjoyment of music. Now that’s £2000 on three mains cables. The average non-hi-fi person would consider me certifiable for spending money like that - even if they could hear the difference. As I said it is a very personal thing and impossible to generalise.
1 Like
You bought a kettle cord for £600 ?
Would I guess be the average query to a Powerline … a friend of mine knows nothing about Hifi , but he was an engineer at AWRE (making nuclear bombs) and he understood it immediately
He also understood that what I was seeking was a discernible uplift .
On the other hand he has a Mercedes Convertible which I think a complete waste of money , - with his knees and my knees getting into the *****y thing is an exercise in contortion, but he’s happy.
I on the other hand drive a Suzuki Ignis, which reflects my driving needs/aspirations .
And have you seen the Naim Watch thread, why do people spend so much money when a quartz digital watch will tell perfect time ? (My Rolex is upstairs, unused and probably unloved )
1 Like
Completely true and yet completely subjective. I’ve heard the same argument over and over again over the years even about entry level stuff. “But that 500 quid hifi doesn’t sound any better than my clock radio mate. You’re bonkers. As long as it carries the tune, than anything more and you’ve spent money for nuffink”
It’s all a matter of degrees.
2 Likes
And system to system
Then there is the question as to whether the benefit is real or imaginary …and whether it matters if benefit is real or imaginary - which may depend on available money as well as the psyche of the person.
3 Likes
And also from time to time. In the past I’ve made ‘upgrades’ and then later removed them and thought to myself ‘I really don’t know what it was about that that I thought I liked so much at the time’.
As to real or imaginary, well truth is we will never know. Best leave that can of worms tightly closed!