Floorstanders instead?
Are there any manufacturers that build open frame stands in custom size?
Interesting that the marketing material from Russell K talks about the speaker range being free from ātime-smearā.
Reminds me of the Paul Messenger reviews of the olive Naim gear in the early 90s with Rehdeko speakers where he often used to use this term. I always wanted to hear some of the Rehdekos as they were supposed to be very much marmite speakers. Looks like they are no longer around. Not much info on the internet about them either.
Anyway apologies for the diversionā¦
my experience:
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had two Something Solid models - first one for large standmounts and then had one for ls3/5s. Firstly, they are not light stands and weigh a fair bit, however in both cases I felt they produced a subtle ringing effect, and did not sound balanced to me with a few speakers Iāve tried. With regards to open frame, it possibly benefited somewhat the larger thin walled speakers (as apposed sitting flat with no interface at all on a plate) but nothing in the case of ls3/5a (and I wonder if this is even anything to consider for the small monitors). The carbon tips are a pain, especially for light small cabinets and cut through blu tack.
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generally disappointed with metal tube speaker stands, filled or not, similar to above effects and a bit of a lazy sound and bass.
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I have found heavy wooden stands better but best of all - solid rigid heavy metal stands. I have heavy Targets for my Martens (but may buy their dedicated stands which are designed to screw the speakers to them) and the dedicated Falcon stands for my smaller Spendor D1. I know Spendor recommends their very light own stands for the SA1s which I also had previously but found they do not work as well for other small monitors or the D1s.
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gel pads and similar ruin the sound for me. No blu tack for me anymore but you can get away with it with high polished lacquered veneers ā¦may be?
I use small pieces of thin leather under the speakers just to help stick and reduce risk of scratching/damage or slipping.
Nah, been there, prefer stand mounts and so does my room!
Gibbon 88 and Orangutang,they are detailed but canāt boogie,in my opinion.
What - at holding flowers?
Yes time smearing seems to have become a fashionable term in hifi - however I do think in speakers and rooms it is a good termā¦ I think in previous years we might have referred to the fastness of a pair of speakers, or even the phase distortion from the speakers.
I find the difference between a speaker that focuses on fastness or low smearing to my ears sounds so much more engaging to listen to than a speaker that doesnāt specifically focus on this.
I guess the test for me is extra detail without highlighting or increased treble as well clear timing and rhythm - like hearing the subtle intonations between two people singing a duet - the microphone placement on a piano recital - the reverb of a cathedral - the production techniques in a track say from the Chemical Brothersā¦ I guess for some these artefacts are not what music is all about - but for me it is - it makes it feel more real and immersive.
The only down side - the better the replay from your speakers becomes the more the deficiencies in your listening environment become apparent.
Like many of you here, I too have tried various spikes, cones, gadgets of all sorts, on quite a few different speakers, typical monkey coffins, omniās, etc. Most of the time I struggled to hear much of a difference, and very few times, anything off or horrible.
I owned Larsen Model 4ās for almost 6 years, and the SD footers were recommended by them for the speaker bottom/floor interface. Also, Guru also recommended these type of footers for use between stand and speaker bottom. The squidgy things seemed to my ears, to make the best interface on these two speakers.
I usually try what the manufacture recommends firstly if possible, and go from there. There are so many different combinations possible, and we all hear things differently, so nothing is quite the absolute. These days I find things like this, as well as cable swapping almost dreadful, and prefer to just listen to music. Guess I am pretty much over the fiddling for the most part.
In my (limited) experience, the most important factor has been matching the stand type to the speaker.
When I was using ATC SCM7s, I followed the conventional advice and used mass-loaded stands. The sound was undoubtedly impressive - weighty, great clarity, lots of detail - but curiously static and PRaT-less. When I switched to the Something Solid open frame stands, they sounded so much better overall, albeit with a slight loss in the bass region.
My ProAc Tablette 10 Signatures, on the other hand, seem to love heavy stands. They work very well with my Custom Design FS104s, about 2/3 filled with Atabites, so much so that I sometimes wonder if I should go all in and get a pair of those Atacama stands with the 4 enormous hollow uprights (and another bucket of Atabites).
Exactlyā¦ what you almost certainly heard on the high mass stand was an output with smeared upper mids and highs to some extent. A high mass stand coupled to a speaker will lower the overall resonance point which will amplify the bass but with a loss of detail
Iām sure this is absolutely true. Iāve certainly not listened to every stand mount speaker and every stand. Not even 0.001%. Just that the single/dual column stands and speakers I happen to have heard didnāt sound as good as open frame - even when the single/dual column ones were made for the speaker.
OTOH, single column do look tidier. And floorstanders tidier again still.
For the sake of going back on topic, when using gel pads is good is in earthquake prone areas. When I lived in Tokyo, I used specific gel pads for holding down anything (bookcases, TVs, speakers) up to magnitude 7. They allowed a lot of movement and made things sort of laterally wobbly, but they also held things down with considerable force. And never once damaged veneers even after 6 years. All bought from the disaster preparedness aisle in the DIY store.
Although I didnāt care for the presentation of the SCM7s with the mass loaded stands, I didnāt detect any smearing or loss of detail, if anything, the detail was more emphasised than with the open frame stands, which favoured flow and rhythm.
In my experience you donāt ānoticeā a loss of detail in the audio unless comparing side by side. However it is the difference between the audio sounding holographically there - and coming from a loudspeaker.
Sure not all recording can allow this to render and different speakers exhibit this to varying extents - but when they do itās quite striking. I found the SCM 19s ok in this regard, the RK RED speakers very good at this task.
I have a few ātestā tracks that exaggerate this for fast reference. Pink Floyd The Wall with the 'Do you wanna take a bath?". If that sounds remote in the recording then good - if its sounds like it is literally coming from your next door room as if the person is in your house - then that is what Iām talking about.
Its just one of those things that in hifi - that I enjoy - this subtitlies get you emotionally closer to the ideas in the music.
It does have its down sides - I do now get false cues of some one knocking on the front door or a door slamming somewhere in the house somewhere - quite unnerving if I am the only one in the houseā¦ though this was very rare if at all with the ATCs
The interesting question is which it was intended to sound like when originally mixed? (I canāt remember how it sounds on my system - will have to try some time.)
I believe as I describe ā¦ and makes sense when you watch Alan Parkerās filmā¦ the groupie walks into the bathroom when Pink is in the other roomā¦ you can also hear the subtle reverb of the presumably tiled bathroomā¦ unless a production technique in recording Trudy Youngās voice.
Apparently One of my Turns was part recorded in a TV studio set that was then smashed upā¦ I donāt know if the bathroom was also part of the setā¦. Either way James Guthrie did a superb production engineering job.
I use audioquest sorbothane puks these work really well they decouple and isolate the speaker very wellā¦and they stick slightly like blue tacā¦so the speakers are secure. The sorbothane seems to vertually illuminate floor interactionā¦with vietually no speaker stand vibration detectableā¦
Trying out the Atacama gel pads between speaker and stand. They seem to rob my system on the deepest bass and tighten things up which Iām not sure I like since it narrows the āsceneā making my speakers feel bit smaller. Weāll see how it goes. They can otherwise be used as a door stopper
Currently using one type of feet in the front and another type in the back which also tilt them somewhat for a more in focus imaging. Tweakingā¦
Front
Back
I have Harbeth P3ESRs on Atacama Moseco stands with Fisual round isolation pads between top of stand and base of speaker. The stands have no filling in the columns.
Whilst the room is difficult, dimensions, shape, suspended wooden floor etc - that is not my initial question.
Iāve never been happy with the sound and have been following this thread with interest as itās relevant I think.
When playing music I can feel vibration in the speaker cabinets, Iām assuming this is to be expected.
When I touch various parts of the stand (top plate and columns)I can also feel vibration, it reduces the further down the columns I touch. The stand bases have negligible amounts of vibration. This leads me to conclude the Fisual pads are not really isolating/dissipating that much from the speakers?
I realise there are many things which can affect the sound, Iām looking at making sure that I start with the things that must be correct before looking at positioning etc. Iām open to the situation where these stands may not be the best match for the Harbeths.
As a start point, should I be feeling any vibration in the stands? (regardless of the stand type itself).
Iāve had the exact same combination without the pads. I would replace the Moseco with heavier wooden or very rigid heavy stands if you prefer more clarity and precision. Even when filled up, the Mosecos have somehow always sounded soft and a bit smudged to me, however they add some perceived bass to small speakers. From trying pads with other stands and speakers, I think it would only add to the soft slowing effect.