When I play my chord DAC in the car, and play the same through my Naim amps (using the same Vertere DFI cables) I can’t really detect any change in the song that a Naim amp is adding. In fact the Naim playlist for 2020 bristol playlist is my reference, so we’re all on the same page. Try it for yourself.
What I do hear is the the music has more “control”, the speaker is driven with more grip, but as far as adding something to the song that wasn’t there before, I do not hear this at all.
There’s no Naim sound as such, just the sound of the music, going through less timing and other distortion - but with more control (because of the NAC preamp - Naim audio control) - and the speaker being driven with enough current (due the NAP - Naim audio power)
Analogmusic,
You advocated during many years the contrary, saying that the Naim sound is given essentially by the Naim pre/ amp combo.
Have you changed your mind?
to clarify what I meant
To get the performance of a Naim amp as intended by Naim itself, it is necessary to use the Naim preamp and power and as one combination - and I do not change my views on that.
but as a Naim pre/power combination adding something to the music that wasn’t there to begin with, I just don’t hear this. How can any amplifier do this?
How amplifiers amplify is to take the input signal from the source, and modulate the current from mains electricity to match the input signal, and how well any amplifier does this, is what separates the average from the best.
I would say that each brands has its own character of the sound. It’s never strictly neutral.
Who can say that Naim presents more accurately the music vs CH precision, Boulder, Soulution…?
In you hear an album through Accuphase and through Naim, it’s completely different: Accuphase will sound leaner, softer, a bit nicer and less dynamic. The details will be also presented differently.
well yes there is a difference between accuphase vs Naim - because of their respective abilities in modulating the mains to match the input signal.
Naim also do not use parallel transistors, and thus apparently suffer less timing distortion
as you said “leaner, softer, less dynamic, a bit nicer” to me these are distortions in the signal, not additions to the input signal.
After the source, there’s really nothing in the hi-fi chains that can improve the signal, just alter it.
So I suppose it is matter of choosing which compromises one likes, and those who like Naim like the choices Naim made in reducing/eliminating timing distortion
If distorsions exist in Accuphase, they exist in Naim, and all other brands.
Naim is not more accurate than the other best audio brands existing. It’s just a matter of taste and choice of the type of presentation we want to have. I prefer Naim, but will not say it’s more neutral and accurate vs other well known brands.
Naim apparently optimise for timing - to make sure the rhythms in the music do not get distorted during amplification.
Other brands maybe optimise for other criteria and rhythms. I would agree that there is no perfect amplifier, all hi-fi is compromise… the standard really is live “unamplified” musical instruments.
This is what I believe and is my standard. Its what I try to achieve when choosing components. Its an absolute standard. Each of our ears hears live music differently, but those same ears are used to listen
at home. The only issue is one’s memory of the sound unamplified live compared to the home sound. Its a skill to develop.
That is not what received wisdom tells me from several years on Naim’s forum, though some people say not, a lot say there is - however there also seems to be a suggestion that is has diminished with the more recent higher level amps. One thought is that the limitations in other regards in pursuing PRaT above all else created a character, and maybe the better amps do the other stuff better, becoming more neutral and so tge characteristic sound reducing.
Various things over that time have also given the impression that the amplification, especially the preamp, may be the keycreator of the character, and a hunch from that is that could be why some people don’t like the change in sound not using a preamp but feeding power amp directly.
To clarify again. I can’t hear my naim or in fact any naim amp that I’ve heard adding something to the music that wasn’t there to begin with
A naim preamp excels at keeping the dynamics in the music that’s already there intact when reducing the volume/gain.
Remember that a preamp receives 2 volts from a CD player and passes much less of this voltage to the power amp
Maintaining linearity in this process and doing least possible damage to the delicate signal
Probably that’s what some call the naim sound.
I just call it excellent engineering and truly great hi fi
Still : I still don’t hear a naim amp adding any flavor or adding anything to any song I’ve heard
Now Naim sources that’s another matter. I do hear a distinct house sound there… ? I do love a naim source for its musicality Maybe I’m wrong about a house sound in the sources… but that’s what I hear.
Actually there’s a similar thread running which questions the idea can you go direct from your NAIM streamer to a NAIM power amp or do you have to use a pre-amp in between. The conclusion seems to be you should really use a NAIM pre-amp inbetween because the musicallity is changed by the pre-amp such that the combination of NAIM pre-amp and NAIM power-amp is better that the power-amp on it’s own. I took this to mean that only by using both NAIM pre and power would you get the correct ‘sound’ and that might infer that the power amp DOES add something to the sound and this is complimented by the NAIM pre. Anyway that was my take on the conversation.
If some electronics excel in prat and dynamics but less on tones and soundstaging ( Naim), other on tones, textures but less prat and dynamics ( like Conrad Johnson), other have lean sound but lots of details and soft sound ( Accuphase), other has more body for instruments, Etc…THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A NAIM SOUND and ACCUPHASE SOUND and CONRAD JOHNSON sound…etc
And no one is better. Just a matter of tastes.
I agree with FR. My opinion is simply that ALL Audio gear is essentially Flawed. I have never heard any system at any price that’s sounds like being there. Because one isn’t there. The sound of the Beacon theater, Or Radio City, Carnegie Hall… I’ve heard systems do many things right, but real is real, hifi is hifi. Buy what sounds best to you. Have a sip, put your feet up and enjoy
Chord go for transparency and attempt to let you hear as close as possible to what the artist laid down in the studio. This is very apparent through headphones.
I admit I manipulate the sound with DSP to get it sounding as natural as I can in my room. And I measured everything to set up the DSP.
I agree Naim designs its NAC & NAP as a single amplifier in two boxes, Chord seems to design its pre and power to work independently - when they set up a demo they used mScaler DAVE straight into the Ultima II Power Amp seeing no need for their own £35k pre-amplifier unless analogue souces were introduced.
Linn digitalises everything and despite my reservation the result is fantastic.
I think getting the speakers right is harder than getting the electronic right.
Maybe it’s my ears but every single Naim amp I have had adds a certain Naim flavour to the sound of course they cannot add something to a recording that isn’t there and I don’t believe anyone claimed they have.
They do however present music in their own way and I gree with FR they do not present it better than any other quality amp just differently and it is that difference that gives Naim it’s house sound that it’s fans enjoy.
Far too early to have an opinion… I need to sit and have a proper listen.
At the moment I’m resting from the trauma of playing round the back of the rack with interconnects and adapters. After a good rummage around the back I think it a plus when it still works and left is left and right is right!
