I’m not sure a passive is the best idea with Naim as it is the preamp that adds the sonic signature that we all enjoy to a Naim pre power.
There are other makes like Quad though whose amps are let down somewhat be their preamps, fantastic power amps, average pre’s so adding a passive in this instance makes sense.
There also many companies now who make some of the more exotic D Class amps and amp modules who don’t produce a matching pre so again a passive makes good sense.
Here the Townsend Allegri Reference, second part review. (Ear Audio).
I wonder how it would compare vs a 552.
It’s interesting to contrast this Townshend with an active preamplifier like the ATC CA2, the latter thickens up the bass which makes some recordings sound more appealing but it doesn’t deliver anything like the transparency to musical detail that the Allegri Reference does. Nor does it do the trick with the grain in leading edges, and this is true of an awful lot of amplifiers. Even MP3 can sound good through the Allegri Reference as I discovered with a promo of Floating Points’ ‘Bias’, a proper bangin’ choon track that sounds hard edged under normal circumstances. It lets you hear more in a musically compelling fashion too, especially with a great source like the Rega P10/Aphelion 2 record player and Tom Evans Groove SRX phono stage which does immediacy like nothing else. Bowie’s ‘Bewlay Brothers’ is absolutely stunning, so crisp, open and cleverly constructed. It’s not natural but works beautifully and reminds me why Hunky Dory will always be the pinnacle of his work. A much more recent release, Sarathay Korwar’s Your East is my West , is a live performance and thus far more real, that much is absolutely clear with the Allegri Reference which shows you the size and acoustic character of the ecclesiastical venue as well as the vibrancy and brilliance of the musicians involved. And the bass (did I mention that Max likes bass?) the bass here is so clean and deep that it can be a shock when the truly low notes come along. The absence of any form of thickening, which is prevalent in so much audio equipment, means that the bass has the same speed and power as the mid and treble. When you put on something meaty like Kraftwerk’s Minimum Maximum it’s truly exhilarating.
Ultimately this preamp makes your music more engaging, intense and enjoyable, the decay it finds on acoustic instruments, the power and definition it brings to electronica and the way it reveals the true genius of so many pieces of music is non-stop fabulous. I used the Reference with the following amplifiers: ATC P2, Bryston 4B3 and ATC SCM150A active speakers and in every case it worked superbly, the latter pairing being particularly successful. The Allegri+ is not so well suited to ATC actives but this one brought out capabilities that these speakers have not even hinted at in the past, this is a killer combo.
The Townshend Allegri Reference is a true high end component, not because it has lavish metalwork or a huge price tag but because it is genuinely revelatory in its fidelity to the source. It adds nothing and takes nothing away but signal voltage, it wouldn’t be much of a preamp if it didn’t. It offers a good range of inputs and features to make it user friendly and works with a wide range of sources and amplifiers; pretty well any serious system will be dramatically improved by its presence. I have found this to be nearly always the case with the Allegri+ but the use of isolation and relay switching puts the Reference in another league, it is an absolute corker.
A very good description of what you get with a passive against an active preamplifier and right down the food chain it is my experience too, put simply active preamps generally add to what has been pressed onto an artist’s release and this is most noticeable in the bass notes on the other hand a passive adds nothing.
Of course some brands like Naim and Linn add some very delicious and appealing flavour to recordings that’s quite addictive and there is nothing at all wrong with that and wether you prefer the flavoured or the passive is all down to personal preference.
One thing I can say is that the level of detail I’ve heard in some recordings using even a very basic passive is the best I’ve heard in any system yet of course the quality of the power amp has a big part to play too.
I am not really sure about that.
When I play my chord DAC in the car, and play the same through my Naim amps (using the same Vertere DFI cables) I can’t really detect any change in the song that a Naim amp is adding. In fact the Naim playlist for 2020 bristol playlist is my reference, so we’re all on the same page. Try it for yourself.
What I do hear is the the music has more “control”, the speaker is driven with more grip, but as far as adding something to the song that wasn’t there before, I do not hear this at all.
There’s no Naim sound as such, just the sound of the music, going through less timing and other distortion - but with more control (because of the NAC preamp - Naim audio control) - and the speaker being driven with enough current (due the NAP - Naim audio power)
There is absolutely a Naim sound.
In naim digital sources maybe
But not really in the amps
Analogmusic,
You advocated during many years the contrary, saying that the Naim sound is given essentially by the Naim pre/ amp combo.
Have you changed your mind?
to clarify what I meant
To get the performance of a Naim amp as intended by Naim itself, it is necessary to use the Naim preamp and power and as one combination - and I do not change my views on that.
but as a Naim pre/power combination adding something to the music that wasn’t there to begin with, I just don’t hear this. How can any amplifier do this?
How amplifiers amplify is to take the input signal from the source, and modulate the current from mains electricity to match the input signal, and how well any amplifier does this, is what separates the average from the best.
I would say that each brands has its own character of the sound. It’s never strictly neutral.
Who can say that Naim presents more accurately the music vs CH precision, Boulder, Soulution…?
In you hear an album through Accuphase and through Naim, it’s completely different: Accuphase will sound leaner, softer, a bit nicer and less dynamic. The details will be also presented differently.
well yes there is a difference between accuphase vs Naim - because of their respective abilities in modulating the mains to match the input signal.
Naim also do not use parallel transistors, and thus apparently suffer less timing distortion
as you said “leaner, softer, less dynamic, a bit nicer” to me these are distortions in the signal, not additions to the input signal.
After the source, there’s really nothing in the hi-fi chains that can improve the signal, just alter it.
So I suppose it is matter of choosing which compromises one likes, and those who like Naim like the choices Naim made in reducing/eliminating timing distortion
If distorsions exist in Accuphase, they exist in Naim, and all other brands.
Naim is not more accurate than the other best audio brands existing. It’s just a matter of taste and choice of the type of presentation we want to have. I prefer Naim, but will not say it’s more neutral and accurate vs other well known brands.
it depends which criteria FR.
Naim apparently optimise for timing - to make sure the rhythms in the music do not get distorted during amplification.
Other brands maybe optimise for other criteria and rhythms. I would agree that there is no perfect amplifier, all hi-fi is compromise… the standard really is live “unamplified” musical instruments.
This is what I believe and is my standard. Its what I try to achieve when choosing components. Its an absolute standard. Each of our ears hears live music differently, but those same ears are used to listen
at home. The only issue is one’s memory of the sound unamplified live compared to the home sound. Its a skill to develop.
That is not what received wisdom tells me from several years on Naim’s forum, though some people say not, a lot say there is - however there also seems to be a suggestion that is has diminished with the more recent higher level amps. One thought is that the limitations in other regards in pursuing PRaT above all else created a character, and maybe the better amps do the other stuff better, becoming more neutral and so tge characteristic sound reducing.
Various things over that time have also given the impression that the amplification, especially the preamp, may be the keycreator of the character, and a hunch from that is that could be why some people don’t like the change in sound not using a preamp but feeding power amp directly.
To clarify again. I can’t hear my naim or in fact any naim amp that I’ve heard adding something to the music that wasn’t there to begin with
A naim preamp excels at keeping the dynamics in the music that’s already there intact when reducing the volume/gain.
Remember that a preamp receives 2 volts from a CD player and passes much less of this voltage to the power amp
Maintaining linearity in this process and doing least possible damage to the delicate signal
Probably that’s what some call the naim sound.
I just call it excellent engineering and truly great hi fi
Still : I still don’t hear a naim amp adding any flavor or adding anything to any song I’ve heard
Now Naim sources that’s another matter. I do hear a distinct house sound there… ? I do love a naim source for its musicality Maybe I’m wrong about a house sound in the sources… but that’s what I hear.
Actually there’s a similar thread running which questions the idea can you go direct from your NAIM streamer to a NAIM power amp or do you have to use a pre-amp in between. The conclusion seems to be you should really use a NAIM pre-amp inbetween because the musicallity is changed by the pre-amp such that the combination of NAIM pre-amp and NAIM power-amp is better that the power-amp on it’s own. I took this to mean that only by using both NAIM pre and power would you get the correct ‘sound’ and that might infer that the power amp DOES add something to the sound and this is complimented by the NAIM pre. Anyway that was my take on the conversation.
If some electronics excel in prat and dynamics but less on tones and soundstaging ( Naim), other on tones, textures but less prat and dynamics ( like Conrad Johnson), other have lean sound but lots of details and soft sound ( Accuphase), other has more body for instruments, Etc…THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A NAIM SOUND and ACCUPHASE SOUND and CONRAD JOHNSON sound…etc
And no one is better. Just a matter of tastes.
I agree with FR. My opinion is simply that ALL Audio gear is essentially Flawed. I have never heard any system at any price that’s sounds like being there. Because one isn’t there. The sound of the Beacon theater, Or Radio City, Carnegie Hall… I’ve heard systems do many things right, but real is real, hifi is hifi. Buy what sounds best to you. Have a sip, put your feet up and enjoy 
Chord go for transparency and attempt to let you hear as close as possible to what the artist laid down in the studio. This is very apparent through headphones.
I admit I manipulate the sound with DSP to get it sounding as natural as I can in my room. And I measured everything to set up the DSP.
I agree Naim designs its NAC & NAP as a single amplifier in two boxes, Chord seems to design its pre and power to work independently - when they set up a demo they used mScaler DAVE straight into the Ultima II Power Amp seeing no need for their own £35k pre-amplifier unless analogue souces were introduced.
Linn digitalises everything and despite my reservation the result is fantastic.
I think getting the speakers right is harder than getting the electronic right.
Maybe it’s my ears but every single Naim amp I have had adds a certain Naim flavour to the sound of course they cannot add something to a recording that isn’t there and I don’t believe anyone claimed they have.
They do however present music in their own way and I gree with FR they do not present it better than any other quality amp just differently and it is that difference that gives Naim it’s house sound that it’s fans enjoy.
