Is the d100 ripping to flac or wav?
That is one possible explanation of why Melco’s rips are better than those of other rippers, but it is by no means definitive, and would need exploring in practice. Whether noise or something else, it needs the files of rips produced on the D100 comparing with rips produced on several other rippers, or at least dBPoweramp, with if it is possible to do so modifying the file from another ripper to have the same construct as that from the D100 to see if it has the same effect. And if the difference in sound is indeed due to different, or different level of, noise produced in processing/playing of the ripped file, then the D100 rips might also be expected to sound better on other servers, and I’m not sure that anybody has indicated that that is indeed the case?
OK. I’m happy with the explanation as a working hypothesis as it were. It satisfies me and I’ve no interest in pursuing it further. Better things to do and think about. 
1 Like
I’m ripping to WAV.
1 Like
Well a rip is a rip… full stop.
You can always post a couple of wav (uncompressed) files created from rips on Box or similar, one from a Melco, and say one from DBPoweramp with a correctly offset CD drive and I can compare to see what the differences are in the two RIFF files … at a bit level across the whole file … ie a repeat what we did 8 years ago.
There is no magic in any of this… it really is trivial IT.
If you are worried about copyright, there is oodles of out of copyright material out there now which makes this easy… the recording quality is irrelevant for this exercise. It would be good to dispel any myths.
It’s always better to look into the box, rather than guess what is inside it.
3 Likes
Saying a rip is a rip, is like saying an ethernet cable is an ethernet cable or a ethernet switch is an ethernet switch.
They can all sound slightly different for a product that is in the digital domain rather than analogue. How and why, don’t know, but i do know or atleast i believe they sound different.
Just because the same rip looks exactly the same, doesn’t 100% mean it is, as are we 100% measuring absolutely everything that’s been ripped or just most off it?
As with most things you need to know what you are looking for before you can find it.
As said the real test is just rip and listen for yourself as this debate will go on for ever, just like the cable one’s do.
2 Likes
In the case of ethernet, the mechanism by which the ethernet cable changes the sound at the speakers is now well established. It is not 0s and 1s decaying or breaking up. It is electromagnetic noise from the network and ethernet cable entering the DAC and distorting the sound.
In the case of rips, the rip is the rip. When we are riping a CD we are not recording onto tape like we all used to do with cassette tape. We are doing the equivalent of recovering a digital download from a rather dodgy cf or sd card. A better card reader might and will help recover the data. But if the CF card is good, the cheapest reader will do the same job as the most expensive.
The secondary effect is what Simon is referring to - is it possible that the precise way the WAV file is encoded by the ripping software having a secondary effect in some streamers (not all for sure).
Have I got this right simon? I would hate to mislead.
Of course its not!!!
A rip is a specific extraction process of reading the digital data from optical read only memory.
It’s like saying reading a pdf file on my laptop is the same as reading a file on my desktop. The reading software might run at a different speed on my different computers, and may even use different operating systems. But if I have a pdf of my bank balance, it does magically change to a different balance when I view on a different computer.
You might be thinking of the constructed WAV, AIF, or ALAC file from the RIP, there there can be different options of how the file RIFF structure can be constructed.
We went through this so many times and on several threads over the past few years I offered to do the same if only someone with a Melco would provide a file and each time no one wanted to dance. Everyone had a staunch belief but no one was keen to pull back the curtain when invited. I7 d always approached it from a “I don’t know. This is why we investigate and test. I’m not professing to know these are or not the same”
More than once I got, “If you want to know, you go and buy a Melco”
I comment on these types of topics rarely now. Almost never on topic on LAN cables. Objectivity left the building a while back. Richard doesn’t like us to discuss politics or religion and some of these topics seem to have more in common with the latter.
3 Likes
I only use windows media player for my flac rips but I do make sure I have my special mains cable plugged into the laptop and make sure the fridge is off.
1 Like
I assume you meant to put a 
on this 
1 Like
I am not so sure about politics or religion, more about cults…
No I don’t tend to get involved either - as the discussions often get cyclical and often just based on feelings and emotions rather than any objectivity
.
However there does appear a fresh wave of new members on the forum, so am happy to help dispel the old myths again… because I suspect over exuberant sales people starting putting FUD into some minds…
and widely extrapolated cause and effect theroies can be invented.
I am a believer of trust your ears, or better still, trust your tastes… but don’t trust your ears and then try and justify with pseudo science without being prepared to be objective … just experience it, or say for example in a certain passage of music I felt what the musician or composer was wanting to achieve and describe it. It is still subjective but against a framework.
If you want to be objective and deterministic - I have no issue in doing that (hence the offer of analysing the rip files) - but you do need discipline in the approach. Its far easier for many simply relying on feelings
If I were to prefer listening to music generally whilst drinking favourite cognacs… I would do so - I wouldn’t try and justify it by saying my music sounds better when quaffing Rény Martin XO as opposed to VSOP - and if I did that clearly would only be relevant to me…
4 Likes
1 Like
Agreed. At this point I don’t think there is much more to be said on the subject. Personally, I would be amazed now if any wav file construction factors affect how my newer Linn Organik DAC worked but its possible of course. Just can’t be bothered to try and find out! Too much music to enjoy 
I would only have an interest from the perspective of my own needledrops. If there was a difference in file construction that mattered I could find some way to optimise by re-encoding the wav file I recorded using a Tascam DA-3000. Suspect it will make little to no difference though.
No… but to close the matter I would love it if someone could share a Melco rip wave file and another ripper wave file of the same track/CD so we can show the differences if any - and is then on record for another few years
2 Likes
Agreed. I may talk to my dealer - As I have a lot of credit at the moment ordering a NGKDSM I think he might have a D100 I could borrow to test. I will ask him later.
2 Likes
So why does ssd sound different?
Also cd transports
lets get objective and find out, or prove what it isn’t … CD transports it can be serialisation clock related if a transport, or limitations in the bandwidth of the galvanic isolation that introduces phase noise into a serial stream (SPDIF), limited bandwidth or ringing in the serialisation output, again adding phase noise.
If you remove those realtime effects then you will find, assuming no errors, every CD drive creates the same data… but in an asynchronous clocked stream, the data values are determined by three states; high, low and time interval. Time interval is quantitive measure… and so is analogue. Differences here create phase noise or variation. These couples into receiving electronics that recover the clock.
A flat file has no such time variation, which is of course how media is shipped to cloud streaming providers, CD pressers, vinyl cutters etc
SSD I think will only sound different if it is connected into the last leg of your hifi network - i.e. close to your streamer in network terms. Because in that position my understanding is the whole NAS setup is acting like a giant eq box. If I was to put an SSD into my NAS in my synology located in my office the differential noise generated is likely to be so minimal that it would not make a difference given that it goes through three switches. And an SSD does not store digital data any more accurately than solid state. I could move a music file a thousand times between SSD and solid state drives and I will be very unlikely to lose a single bit.
CD transports are totally different. Others can weigh in on that.
Again not about data.
Ssd has no moving parts.
Therefore it is impossible, that if a moving part does or can inject non un wanted noise into it.
That’s why cd manufacturers go into so much trouble trying to isolate the motor from it as it makes a difference.
Why wouldn’t it make a difference if i am just coping it?
As in the end i will be playing it to listen too it.
1 Like