Crazy plan to try proxy server!

It’s the Wi-Fi that’s the issue here. SiS did say that this would be a possible problem.

I just plugged my laptop into the router with a free isp internet cat 5 cable.

Compared the same tracks via Kazoo sending wav to the 272 vs Naim app sending flac.

Now the wav does not sound worse.

It may just sound a little better but the difference is very subtle.

While listening to ‘The Force for Peace in War VII. Interlude: “Hiroshima is Bombed”’ I got lost in the wonderful music (composed by Gloria Coates) and when I came to I couldn’t recall whether it was a flac or wav version that was playing, and I couldn’t tell the difference from the sound of the music.

For me, there was a pretty clear difference between Tidal and local streams on the old Naim streamers when it was first integrated. Naim did try hard to improve this in the later firmware versions, and I think the later versions made it sound pretty good. I suspect there may have been one or two quite vocal critics of Tidal who did not bother to reassess it later on, but still posted negative opinions.
If there was no alternative, I could probably live quite happily with native Tidal now, as I think the difference is generally quite small, but of course, we are all different.

I’ve not used native Tidal for some time now but back when I did the testing it was clearly better via Bubble. I use Qobuz now; although I do still have a Tidal sub.
I could try the comparison again if I have the time and can be bothered :slight_smile:

Let me know if you do try that.
But don’t go to the trouble on my behalf.
I have a clear result on this - it doesn’t make much difference in this system.

I guess it’s a question of whether or not it’s worth the extra faffing about with Lumin for the small gains. At least it was free.
Next stop…Roon :wink:

yes, no dosh wasted in this expt

but, no - not Rooooooon!

I hate to be the bringer of bad news…

I’ve just compared several Tidal tracks on both the Naim App and Bubble, transcoding was turned off for the sake of fairness.
First I played the Naim App, hmmm, it sounds ‘slow’ and off the pace, if it was a LP you’d think somebody had their finger dragging on the platter. It also lacks depth (and I don’t mean the soundstage) and engagement. Tonally it’s fine to me so no issues there.
Bubble brings PRaT to the presentation and you end up listening beyond your cut off point. Really engaging and bounces along.
Compared to my local WAV files the FLAC is a little sharp compared to the more tonally rich WAV but not terrible. PRaT is more importent that tonal qualities IMHO.
Turning Bubble transcoding back on puts the tonal richness back and is very close to the Naim App playing local material both tonally and PRaT.
:notes:

interesting how different your results are

I hear a significant difference b/w Bubble/QNAP/Kazoo and the native Tidal on my SU via the Naim app.

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So it must run cleaner on a newish QNAP or a good pc.

But my 5 ish yr old Asus (iirc c.£220!) is electrically going to be a nasty place to do any audio processing.
The cable it ran there and back in was an at least 10 maybe 20 year old Cat 5 free isp type cable that has lived in my garage for years.

So those 2 things alone will have dragged the SQ down perhaps a lot.
So the uplift from the transcoding to WAV etc will have had to compensate for that downlift just to get even on my system.

Yep, I’ve also been playing around with the Bubble Server on my NAS and once I managed to set it up properly, I can hear a difference playing Tidal over Bubble into my SuperUniti.

Next step is to try the innous Zen Mini to see if I can get the same or better Tidal SQ lift, streaming from it.

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@Guinnless could you please tell me how you are getting the Flac to WAV transcoding in Bubble? It’s greyed out for me. (I’m running it on QNAP nas)

My 272 was showing ‘FLAC’ as usual from the Naim app today and showing ‘WAV’ for the same track via the Kazoo app.

There is an option in the Bubble server to transcode AFAIK - but then as this thread has shown I am dead from the neck up as an IT technician…so I must have achieved that by fluke.

It’s because it cannot see the path to ffmpeg or it’s not happy with the version. Probably best not to mess with the QNAP so you may have to live without transcoding. Or get a RasPi to run Bubble on. :blush:

I’ve tried installing ffmpg on the QNAP with no luck. So I’ll stick to just using bubble streaming FLAC.
I’ve also been demoing a innous zen mini 3 this week. streaming Tidal over the zen also gives the uplift in SQ. however streaming services only work when connecting the zen via CoAxial to SuperUniti. Over Ethernet you only have access to local files. So using Bubble gives you best of both worlds. A shame that the zen doesn’t have Bubble Upnp option.

I have used the BubbleUPnP control app for several years (it costs about £3) and I think it is brilliant. My local media is on a dedicated PC and uses Serviio as my server (I have also used Asset). It supports both Qobuz which I use and Tidal (which I don’t). I use the BubbleUPnP control app on an old Amazon Fire HDX 7. You can buy the latest one for £50-£60, a bit more if you want the 10" version. One of the useful benefits is it recognises all the UPnP renderers on your network.

I keep looking at the BubbleUPnP Server (wish they would rename it as the name is mis-leading) but still unclear about what it does and if it would be a benefit. I could run it on the dedicated server PC. Welcome your comments.

Wow, that seems simple :roll_eyes:

The laughably-named UPnP strikes again.

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Flexible, works beautifully and has done for 4 years. When I see the all the different solutions on this forum I am glad I have a simple uncomplicated solution that works. I have 5 streamers including Linn, Denon and 3 odd-balls that all work.

I sit in my chair with just a tablet with the BubbleUPnP control app and remote volume control for my Naim amp. The server and network has 21,000 flac tracks, Qobuz and internet radio that I can select. The server and network runs 24/7/365 and has done for 4 years.

What is the issue/problem?

It acts as a proxy server for non-local streams and your control tablet no longer has to stream the music over WiFi. Qobuz/Tidal is then pretty much the same SQ as CD rips and downloads store on your NAS.
Easy to setup on a RasPi :blush: