DAVE has an integrated pre-amp. I’ve heard a 552, Linn Klimax (my own, now sold) and Chord pre between DAVE and power amps NAP 500 (dealer’s), Linn KCT (mine). I preferred no additional pre … of course another listener may prefer a different combo. I could not know which @ChrisSU would prefer as he’s only posted about 282. You know my view - ignore Stereophile’s subjective commentary - you have to listen for yourself to find a combo that suits you. I know it’s not easy, but it’s the only way.
@ChrisSU - please could you post what ICs and power cords are you using with DAVE? Sorry if you have already answered this.
I’m not surprised with the outcome although I wished the 282 would stay. It looks like the built-in digital preamp of the DAVE is high quality, negating the need of a quality preamp. Or perhaps the 282 isn’t up to the mark and the outcome would be different if it’s a 252 or 552 as some have suggested. The DAVE reminded me of the Benchmark DAC1 (a cheaper version of the DAVE) which also comes with a digital preamp. I used to have the Benchmark DAC1 in my radar many years ago but didn’t manage to try one.
The DAVE costs £8,499 and the NAC 282 plus NAPSC costs £4,778. Not a surprise that the DAVE performs admirably well as a preamp looking at the price. It’s truly a high quality reference DAC preamp. I use a Chord QBD76 DAC with my 282 and the sound quality is sublime. I can just imagine what the DAVE is doing in your system since it has managed to dislodge the 282.
Did you decided to drive the 250dr directly??? I listened to a Dave driving a NAP300dr that was disappointing it lost the drive and sounded un-interesting but that setup was driving Concept 500 speakers not known for speed
Gosh, good, aren’t they?
I have just fitted 5 to each of the BNC cables between M Scaler & DAVE.
Not yet ready to try and explain the differences that these little beasties make to the sound but it is certainly an eyebrow raising improvement. A significant change for not a lot of money (about £6 each, no zeros before the decimal point).
Hi Ferrites will work on any cable where there is common high frequency currents… so mains, twisted pair, shielded etc… it works simply by adding inductive reactance which increases the impedance with respect to higher frequencies.
Ferrite size and inductance is optimised for certain frequencies.
Typically for our applications in audio, the sensitive frequencies are the HF frequencies which range from 3 to 30 MHz.
I use such ferrites on my SPDIF coax and also my Ethernet lead into my streamer.
Hi Jim,
These ferrites have been selected to reduce the amount of circa 2GHz RFI from going out of the M Scaler and into the dac. This RFI is generated by the M Scaler, hence the specific choice of ferrite which works at much higher frequencies than those that are used to impede noise from switch mode power supplies etc…
If you wish to learn more about it, then take a look at the Hugo M Scaler and DAVE threads in the High-end Audio Forum on Head-Fi.org. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of pages of stuff and (mainly guff) on there to satisfy the most curious and/or obsessed.
Hi Simonand BF
Thanks for these replies.
I have bag of 20 cheap ferrites I bought from Amazon.
But there is no info on what frequencies they filter or the spec of the ferrites.
I have only so far used one on the Powerline Lite going into my Naim 150x power amp. It made no audible difference that I noticed.
If I experiment with these should I try any particular ends of any cables?
And is it advisable to get ferrites with specific filtering properties for particular purposes?
MScaler has a Xilinx FPGA which generates RFI at high frequencies, Rob Watts advised that filtering this out was more significant than choice of SPDIF cables. I use Canare cables, which have a good reputation for keeping RFI at bay, but still found the ferrites Rob recommended improved sound quality.
I also use a QED Reference USB cable which has integral Ferrite jacket, electrically isolated power conductors and an impedance controlled data lane. I used to use an iFI cabling system with Hugo, but found the QED worked as well and was less cumbersome. So when I got Blu2 (MScaler) i went for the QED,
When I had a TEAC DAC, the iFi cabling system worked wonders. I believe Chord Electronics uses USB inputs from M2Tech, which remove the need for extensive USB filtering,
I have tried using April Music Stello U3 USB to SPDIF convertor and Sonore μRendu Ethernet to USB convertor. Neither, used separately or together, seemed to improve on the simple QED USB direct from my JRiver Media Centre Mac mini to Blu2, I guess MScaler is doing top notch USB to SPDIF conversion so my other gadgetry is redundant, I wish Chord would do something like a dCS Bridge - SuperPoly in a Choral case.
Hi Jim,
Unless you know which RFI frequencies you are trying to block and which ones your low cost ferrites actually impede, then it is a bit of a lottery as to whether they will do any good.
If you are trying to block any mains noise from SMPS, then you want a low frequency ferrite, the opposite of those that work on the M Scaler output leads.
For SMPS noise, look for the manufacturer Fair Rite and its clamp on ferrites made from type 75 material. Farnell stock them in Europe but they seem to be cheaper to buy from Mouser UK, who import them from the USA. Other makes such as Wurth Electronik will be just as good.
Thanks - these replies are very interesting.
I’ll try some experiments with the ferrites I have on ethernet cables and interconnects and the Cisco power lead.
But I just have and 272/555DR and a 150x power amp - so 2 plugs into the wall.
So it’s good to establish that ferrites need to be matched to the type of radiation/fields they are blocking, but it’s going to be hard to work out how that applies to my system.
If anyone has specific tips or ideas on ferrites that might translate to my system (e.g. @Peder ?) please let me know.
I might even start a ferrites thread - sad though that sounds! - as it seems that they can if applied forensically make a real difference to SQ.
I used to use the iFi cabling system as well (Gemini USB cable, iUSB power supply, separate iFi supply), which worked very well indeed with my previous Chord QBD 76HDSD DAC, but since getting the Dave/M-Scaler, the posh-looking USB cable I discovered in a drawer works just as well.
I had the iFI Mercury from Mac to iPower and iFi Gemini from iPower to iPurifier and then, when I had a Naim DAC, into Stello U3 into DAC. It is nice to have one simple cable to replace that little lot.
I got the TEAC UD501 to play DSD and the difference the iFI gadgets made was very noticeable. With Blu2 DAVE, as you say, there was no difference.
Hi Jim, either end of the cable is fine where it enters the equipment. Focus first on the equipment you are trying to impede the RF travelling to.
The actual frequencies them selves are interesting, the very high frequencies won’t really affect audio circuitry or affect the feedback circuitry, but the intermodulation products of such frequencies passing through non linear devices produces sums and products that can create lower frequencies, and that is where the 3MHz to 30MHz comes in. So I would focus on larger impedances where you can… or simply larger ferrites of not labelled. You can mount several together too
It was an intermodulation frequency I detected from my Netgear switch interacting with my NAT03 tuner FM stereo decoder all those years ago… the end result was a low level birdie sound… the Cisco 2960 removed that…
So the only thing you need to match a ferrite choke to is the frequency of interest … standard radio engineering building blocks… and the impedance is calculated by Z = 2 * Pi * f * Inductance … f is the frequency of interest, and inductance is the inductance at the frequency of interest(based on the stated permeability of the choke)… aim to create the maximum impedance for the frequency of interest.
Jim, it might make no difference at all… all chokes are doing are impeding common or shield RF current if it is present. A well designed system in my opinion should not need chokes on interconnects. but with unbalanced leads, like SPDIF coax, the choke can help force the unbalanced property of the link… and with Ethernet leads impede residual common mode RF currents flowing between devices.
But yes here I’d say is one area where it’s definitely trial and error…
Tried hard to find reasons to invest in the mScaler after I had it on loan for a couple of weeks, I could not really hear the level of improvement that it has become renowned for.
I would have probably still invested in it if it was not creating issues in Roon playback for me… Always ended up losing between 0.5 and 1 second at the start of each track, found that hard to live with… tried to change buffer settings, etc. to compensate but it never really worked well in my system…
I think that is possible, but also system context plays a big part IME. In other contexts: I always found that WAV sounded better than flac, not so in my current system; With recent changes I am finding that my HiRez files are generally a step up on CD based files.