Wedded by necessity I would say. My room has a terrible mode at ~45Hz, so getting a speaker that doesn’t go that low would get integrated much more easily. And hopefully I will be able to fill the lower frequencies succesfully with a REL subwoofer later on, without tumbling on that frequency too much. All while avoiding any dreaded 
DSP corrections.
As for the Fact3, I am sure they must be sounding great, but I couldn’t stand looking at them… 
To me that is surprising seeing as you can stand looking at the hideous (to me) Dyn C1!
All cabinets, and even open baffles, are a way of loading the speaker drivers, and as such influence the sound. The perfect design would do the job without adding resonances from panels, reflections etc, and so might be argued not to have a ‘sound’, and in theory a transmission line could be made to achieve that, though of course in the finished article there would still be a sound as contributed by the driver (unless that were perfect). And it would have a subjective sound when compared with other speakers.
Whatever the reason, I have found I have a preference for how they reproduce music. That said I haven’t heard full range true horns, such as the straight concrete horns as a few people have sought to build…
Sure, I understand they have a sound. I do wonder whether there’s (in practice) any less than from a well braced and dampened cabinet. I guess the only way to find out would be two build to versions. One huge cabinet and a smaller one with TL, baffle and virtual volume the same for both.
Out of curiosity, do you find the same “sound” for both ported and non-ported TLs ? I’ve only ever heard the former myself.
I thought I might be shouted down, and understandable, and no ??? Appropriate words are understandable as it is all a personal experience.
Though I did prefix with being a Tech and not an Engineer, I have probably worked on more complicated equipment than some electronic or RF engineers. Though that is another story. I enjoy what I enjoy, and my wife enjoys what I enjoy from the purse strings perspective.
With regards to aircraft, you get what you pay for (plus the ground crew to service the aircraft).
I believe the same is with regard to any electronic equipment in our niche area. Quality speakers are not economical speakers, though maybe according to the dollars in your purse and HIFI equipment.
My short-term evaluation was to help the OP narrow down his selection of speakers. It was meant to be a helpful guide.
Now where did I leave my morse paddle? Music to my ears on another note.
Warm regards,
Mitch VK3ZT
I’ve also only heard ported ones myself. The only non-ported commercial one of which I’m aware is the B&W Nautilus - the curly wurly one. I would rather like to hear it!
Aside from that, I’m not at all sure that a TL is trying to mimic a larger plain box - surely the latter in effect is simply not loading the cone at all.
Time for an update as I have been progressing with auditions at home…
Bowers & Wilkins 706 S3: Plenty of “air” around the speakers and large sound. However they do need the volume to be turned up before they come alive. Also on the bright side and missing the PRAT that I am looking for. So very different presentation and character compared to the old 685. I definitely prefer the SF Sonetto to this one.
PMC twenty5.21i: I found and borrowed a pair from another dealer and trying currently in place. Indeed the intense “metallic” sound that was giving me headache with the non-i version is not there anymore. They remain very clear, detailed fast and honest. You can tell it’s a really special and excellent speaker. I do feel that I would prefer to have a bit of extra “warmth” in the long term though… And the fact that nobody in this house likes their looks (including me 
) doesn’t help either… 
. Let’s see what I will think after listening them for the whole day today…
In the end I want something that I just press “play”, sit back and enjoy, without overthinking the sound… Of course the constant auditions and comparisons don’t help with that .
To be continued…
@sihctr Will you be able to audition Neat speakers? They may well provide you with that extra warmth but will keep the PRaT.
How about ProAc D2R’s ?
Would never guess this. To me it will be absolutely opposite and no matter which model of those brands.
And that’s how a man gets crazy…
My (favourite) dealer doesn’t have these brands so it gets a bit tricky to listen to everything. And I am getting a bit tired at this point…
I have spent the last 1.5 days listening to the PMC 21i at home under various conditions (background music, TV, late night low volume etc.) to get a feeling if they will satisfy me in the long term. Overall they are pretty good, just lacking a bit of warmth. I am planning on getting a subwoofer on top (or bottom? ) anyway, so that might fill in the missing gaps. But I don’t really know that.
For the next 1.5 days I will replace the PMC with the Sonetto I and make the same trial. And then I will (hopefully) have a clearer opinion of what I like and seek.
And if I am not fully convinced by anything, I’ll just get a pair of used 685s and enjoy some tunes (that’s the point in the first place, no?) while the search continues
When auditioning speakers it’s sometimes easier to work by discounting those which have tonality/response your ears/room don’t like - as you’ve already done with the PMC by the sounds of it.
Then you might be left with a couple of choices which you can demo side by side across a range of musical genre and pick those which you prefer.
The “impressive” thing about your final choice will be they don’t do anything you DISLIKE and that’s why you’ll enjoy them.
I truley relate to your…journey. I think the acoustic approach is correct to begin with - look at the Audiophiles Guide by Paul McGowan. In my room which is small I was stuck with speaker location… I had to use a combination of bass traps and a little bit of bass cut between 55-65hz…and most importantly smaller well controlled speakers. I tried B&W, ATC and PMC all had strengths and weaknesses…but the big win for me was the Vivid S12 a small speaker with allot of control and speed. However, as a word of caution with problimatical rooms you need maximum control from the source - speed and control in the bass is needed. Looking at your system I would follow the Audiophiles Guide and then use the smallest speaker suitable with a system which can give you as best control that you can afford.
I have been down a similar journey since I started with ‘proper hifi’ about 15 years ago. I stuck with the same speakers which were good but never quite right despite various electronic upgrades. Eventually I have found the right speakers in the ATC 40s. The closed box design gives bass like no ported speaker I have heard with a superb midrange.
I think part of the problem is your proximity to the rear wall. Bass overhang and reflections off the back wall can smother percussion and mid/upper frequencies, muddy the sound which in my experience robs the music of ‘prat’. The asymmetry provided by the open space for the right speaker will skew and distort the image.
It is really difficult to get all these things sounding right especially in a living space.
Is there any way you could turn your sofa 90 degrees and fire the speakers down the length of the room. You will then have space behind you and more equal reflections from the side walls. You can then play around with speaker position with more flexibility.
Could you try it even as an experiment?
Do you have any further scope for room treatment?
I have spent many months experimenting with placement of acoustic treatment. It is difficult to get right but I am getting closer. I will not spend any more money on gear until I am happy with my room treatment as I know how much more my system can give.
Good luck.
@Richieroo and @StuW, thank you for your comments. Indeed I have thought about and tried already some of your suggestions in terms of speaker placement and so on. However before I enter into such a rabbithole, I have started getting more philosophical about it, especially in the light of my recent experience with the BW685… At which point does the HiFi stops serving us and we start serving the HiFi instead… I mean in the end our system should accomodate to our life and provide us with enjoyment, not the other way around… 
My stock car audio is nothing special, yet I play music there and just enjoy it. The BW685 is nothing special probably, far from accurate, but I can play music and just enjoy it. Why should it become so hard as we get higher in the ladder?
In the end, the more I think about it, I come to the conclusion that all this HiFi journey might have been the wrong one from the get go. I get the bragging rights for my decent system, but not much more… And I am running out of time/patience/funds to keep chasing unicorns… Time to return to basics with an original Nait and some whatever cheap speakers?
Having said all that, here are my updated thoughts while listening to the Sonettos right now… So they are indeed warmer than the PMCs and more enjoyable than the Dynaudios. They do excite my room mode, but in a slightly less messy way. It’s not a complete veil, but more like Godzilla thumping towards the house… Still they need to come pretty far out from the wall for things to calm down.
However… I am now feeling that the Sonettos are a pair of decent speakers, but still “speakers”. I had to stop the music now in order to write this, otherwise the background music is too intervening in my head. I had the same issue with the Dynaudios. In contrast, the PMCs were not like that… they were more music producers and less “speakers”. I think especially due to their very fast and well-defined sound. I still think they are a bit too “accurate” for my taste. Could it be that a subwoofer would add the missing “warmth”? I could also try to listen the 23i in my place, but then again I want to avoid getting overspeakered or risking to excite the room mode too much again. I assume a good subwoofer (REL 328? maybe) would provide me with more flexibility in generating good bass in this room. What do you think?
PS: I know that all this contravenes what I wrote in my previous post… I’m probably getting nuts at this point…
Reading through this discussion makes me tempted to go and get my old B&W 685s out of the box in the loft…
I wish you good luck on your continued search - whatever the outcome, I hope you get to a position where you can just enjoy the music!
Well I fully understand your comments…and thoughtful ones too… My room is not optimally set as it just would not work as a nice room if everything was orientated to the hifi. Its all a compromise…no matter what level you are at. However, what I have discovered for me … and this is not for everyone…get the right small speaker which does not over power your room…then use a sub and carfully dial it in…and it works very well. As soon as I tried the Vivid speakers I was blown away by their neutrality and speed…this helped my room enormously. (remember your room and seating position dictates the percieved nature of your system) So if you have a speaker that is and fast agile and not too bass heavy … this amelorates the room tendancies… be careful with subs… I use a Velodyne DD10+ and it dials into the room really well… you ideally need a sub that can sense the room and adjusts accordingly… it makes life 100x easier… My system since the speaker change has improved dramtically…it now sounds rich powefull with nice stereo - just good to listen to. If I were you I would try much smaller speakers…like the P3ESR and maybe a Kef sub… obviosly with the best front end you can muster…
I have just helped a friend install a new Rel sub to his system, not sure of the exact model thinking it may have been the 7i , he uses PMC twenty 21’s and the results where very good, seem to have smoothed out the high frequencies and added a more open relaxed presentation to the whole sound, sounds very nice indeed, I plan to do similar, I think smaller speakers and a sub give an easier route to achieving a pretty good set up in the average size room where masses of free space around larger speakers is not possible to achieve.
Don’t get me wrong the small speaker sub route is not a pancea… personally I would love to have bigger speakers… but you need the room generally… keep us in the loop and let us knowwhat you end up with…