Debugging Supernait 3 Midrange Distortion

Hi,

Couple days ago when I was trying to reconnect my system, I accidentally unplugged one of the SNAIC cables off from the SN3(off) while the HICAP DR was still on, and I heard a thump from the speakers.

Is is going the cause any damage to the system? @Richard.Dane

Probably not. But maybe. I’d suggest you listen. Sounds good, then it’s all good.

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Thanks for the reply!

Btw, according to this topic, should I leave the SNAIC cables loosely connected to the SN3 as well?

Some advocate for that. I had mine snug. Just snugged up. Not gorilla tight

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Did you use the lock-ring at all?

Also, should I loosen the connect to the streamer as well?

Many people prefer all three Supernaits with a HC and an equal amount preferred them without a HC it seems you’re one of the latter. Glad you sorted it out though and good to see the forum working to help out again.

Unplugging SNAICs when the system is powered up is definitely something you want to try to avoid as it can damage speakers, usually the tweeters being most vulnerable.

I always do up the collars on SNAICs for this reason as otherwise it’s possible to accidentally unplug them when trying to re-route or remove other leads.

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Thank You Richard!

I did it by accident and I hope it’s gonna be OK :anguished:

You quickly know if its not, jut by playing the system.

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Reading most of this thread… I have experienced something slightly similar in the past… for me it was coupling from other cables including Ethernet and mains into my NACA5 speaker cable. The resolution was to route the NACA5 cables away as best I could… the sound improved, and it resolved my distortion issues. For me it was more in the bass area.

Might not be relevant for you… but thought I’d share just in case it helps.

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I was surprised to see this topic blow back up in my email notifications overnight (in the US), but it was interesting to read back through this, given where I ended up over the past 6 weeks.

Just to do one last follow up on this post, the “last word” was not my final post on Jan 18, as I continued to have issues with that mid-range distortion though it would come and go. I was at my wit’s end chasing down the typical Naim gremlins such as tightening or loosening SNAICs, making sure my cables were hanging properly, that my speaker cables were lined up properly… It just became madness for me because I came to the conclusion NOTHING like that could be having that much of an effect on the sound of the system that I was experiencing or no one would ever buy Naim.

Long story short, I borrowed a PrimaLuna valve integrated from my local dealer to see if the problem persisted. It cleaned up the distortion right away, it was like it never existed. But also at this time I was experimenting with my IsoTek Corvus - whereas before I had always plugged the amps directly into my wall I plugged them into the Corvus this time and the sound was also cleaner and more relaxed. It did not affect dynamics or detail in any way that I had feared.

So sadly I determined that (A) the Supernait 3 was not a match with my speakers impedance-wise. The Nova seemed to have had a much better-matched profile than the Supernait 3. But the Prima Luna seems to be an excellent match. I have sold the SN3 and replaced it with a PrimaLuna Evo 300 preamp and 2 Evo 300 amps in mono configuration.

Additionally (B) I upgraded to an IsoTek Sigmas power conditioner. I live in a small town with an electrical co-op and they do funny things with voltage at different times of the day. The Sigmas has a meter readout which shows the amount of distortion on the line - remarkably during my primary listening times in the evening, I am showing upwards of 4% distortion on the line - so that also played a major factor in what I was hearing.

So overall I am at a place where I am very happy with how everything has turned out. I am still very much in the Naim world as I love my NDX2/XPS DR combo and my Muso 2/Muso QBs around the house. In fact my next upgrade somewhere down the line may be replacing the XPS DR with a 555 PS. But for the short term I am very much enjoying my system where it is.

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Can you explain what you mean by this. Are you talking noise on your mains or are you talking power factor… which is where the current and voltage vectors vary from being 90 degrees out of phase… a common form of mains distortion, sometimes caused by highly reactive loads, but unlikely to have any effect on audio.

I wish I could explain it better but I am going off what the IsoTek website says, which is that the LED display shows the voltage and the THD distortion in the mains.

I read a review of this from Ed Selley who claimed in his system the % THD distortion never went much about 2%. My dealer who also owns the Sigmas in his system said his % never goes much over 2% either. So I assume to see mine hovering around 3.5-3.75%+ during prime listening hours means the Sigmas is working overtime to clean things up!

Ok THD in the mains is not really going to affect your audio circuits, because your devices convert the AC to DC through the use of rectifiers, and then smooth and regulate the constructed DC.
I wouldn’t worry about that… of more relevance is very high frequency non harmonic noise and DC on the mains that can cause transformer saturation creating a lot of unwanted frequency components in the transformed mains.

Yikes are you saying the Sigmas is really not doing anything to affect the sound?

Here are the 2 bullet points that I assume really reflect the sound of the system:

  • Removes both Common Mode and Differential Mode mains noise.
  • RFI reduction 75dB

Is that safe to assume?

Yes that will be more of benefit… see my post above… but that is nothing to do with THD… but I very much doubt these aspects would be at levels of 4% of your mains… I suspect if they were you would have serious malfunction, and even pose a health hazard.

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They are generally high in the “prime time” hours when I would be listening to music, say between 8 PM and 11 PM… this is when I see it fluctuate in the upper 3% range.

Also it shows the voltage in the LED window. Normally I assume this would be 120 for me here in the US, but the Sigmas frequently fluctuates between 116-120v depending on the time of the day.

As I mentioned, I live in a small town with an electrical co-op and I have been told that they will vary the power output throughout the day depending on demand.

That feels a relatively small mains voltage fluctuation, again I wouldn’t unduly worry.
I am not sure what you main by an electrical co-op. In England that could mean an electrical retailer owned by the Co-operative society…
a non for profit retail chain… I am pretty certain that’s not what you mean :grinning:

Yes that is what it means - many rural communities here in the US have utility cooperatives which are private, non-profit utilities that reinvest profits into the infrastructure.

Ok, the same here… but are in both rural and urban areas… and are more regional… but does the co-op generate your local electricity? I am not sure I follow why your power changes due to the co-op.