Dangerous to trust what someone making/selling a product says, without independent verification (and that goes for all brands) - they may be telling the truth, but you cannot be certain. Add to that, with hifi it depends on the listener (and room) - one person may genuinely not hear an anomaly, while to another it may be really prominent. Some sellers of kits or plans can facilitate hearing a completed pair, but otherwise it is a gamble. That is not in itself a reason for not doing, just important to be aware - and of course tweaking or even rebuilding using trial and error to improve need not be expensive, and the result if it works well can prove worth far more than the money spent.
The irony is …i dont see branded speaker manufacturers sharing data ( freq plots / impedance curves etc… ) as easily as DiY folks…
So even in case of buying branded one really does not know the graphs and highs and lows which may affect sound in the room.
The availability of all this data from DiY websites like TG means that these will be subject to more scrutiny ( atleast from folks like me… with little opportunity for repeat purchase or to make a mistake ) than the branded ones.
But in general i agree with your point.
regards
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I would be happy to build that design I have viewed the website for many years now and have faith in his designs.
If it were a problem he would not publish the design until he got it right, he spends many hours getting crossovers spot on.
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Is a 3 way speaker with an 8 + 4 + 1 configuration or similar perform better and sound more spacious than an equivalent 2 way ( 6 inch + 1 inch ) system ?
( for example the Solstice kit with a 1 inch Tweeter and 2 woofers 6.5 inch - 2 way system )
( here the woofers come in upto 1700 Hz and then the tweeter takes over )
I ask this as in the earlier days - tweeters could not go low to maybe 1500 Hz and so you had to have a mid range but modern tweeters play low enough to take over from or hand over to a woofer…
will the 3 way with an 8 + 4 + 1 sound more relaxed and bigger and easier ??
whats your take on this ?
One of the drivers for me looking at a different set of speakers is the largeness / bigness of sound…
at the moment i am using a 2.1 setup with a stand mounted ( 6 inch + 1 inch ) sealed speaker and a 10 inch sealed subwoofer
Read what Troels Gravesen says about 3 way systems you will understand then
Stil in proces to finish.
It’s the vifa vivace 2012
It’s near or maybe better then > 10k speakers 
Later-on i can put my building pics here.
It’s in combination with my SN2 + NDX
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Dear Rob
Those look quite nice and simple to look at
Which drivers are those ?
How is the crossover design ?
Look forward to more images…
This is interesting…
Best regards
Though I’ve never heard them Wilmslow Audio Prestige at £2850 or £2400 for just the drivers look excellent value. Wilmslow Audio are long established company and very respected when it comes to restoration of vintage speakers especially Tannoy if this means they are good at new and modern speaker designing I do not know but I would give their site a quick look.
Treble: Scanspeak D2905/9900.00
Midrange: Volt VM753
Bass: Volt Rv3143
Enclosure type: 3-way reflex
Frequency response: 25Hz - 25000Hz
Sensitivity (2.83v/1m): 90dB
Amp requirement: 50 - 300w
Impedance: 8 ohm
Internal volume: 70 litres per speaker
Weight: 90Kg per pair
Dimensons (HxWxD): 1050mm high x 360mm wide x 330mm deep
Cabinets come in a variety of veneers and are flat pack. Having been to Mumbai several times and travelled extensively throughout India I have no doubt you’ll find a more than capable carpenter and as there are many hundreds of diy designs available online perhaps sourcing the drivers yourself and getting a craftsman to build the cabs to a plan would be the best option financially.
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I did look a few weeks ago Bobthebuilder…
I fear the Naim SN2 will not suffice in terms of exploiting the larger bass driver fully in terms of headroom.
The sensitivity figures are high at 90dB though… But I doubt my existing rig can cater… To this super large speaker.
There is one with an 8 inch woofer too…
Am very confident about the carpentry part of it… Just going thru the process of evaluation of options for larger speakers ( than the standpoints I have currently supported by a sub )
Nice to know you have been to Mumbai before.
Hope you come again for work or for transiting to other parts of my incredible country.
Thank you.
There are at least two questions embedded in that question, one being whether 3-way is better than 2-way, and the other being whether an 8” bass driver is better than a 6”. The answers even to the separated questions are not straightforward, as it depends on the specific drivers (which can vary hugely) and on all other aspects of the speaker design.
My own conclusion is that for cheaper designs, and particularly where low bass is not a real consideration, 2-way may work well, but when you do want deep bass and the best midrange a 3-way is more lijely to be able to achieve it well.
2-way vs 3-way:
Assuming you are considering as a passive speaker, a 2-way has a simpler crossover - which is good. (If active driving this aspect is removed - the difference then becoming one of cost, a 3-way active XO instead of 2-way, and one more amp.)
Athough it does depend on the actual drivers concerned, a 2-way is likely to put the crossover frequency, always a compromise point because two drivers are producing equal output at that frequency, right in the middle of the part of the frequency spectrum most critical for clarity of things like vocals - which is bad.
Narrower range drivers (i.e. bass, mid, treble, as opposed to bass-mid plus treble, or bass/lower-mid plus upper-mid/treble, or bass/mid plus treble) can be designed to better optimise performance in the narrower range they are required to perform - which is good.
The a 3-way has the sound coming from 3 different locations, which is worse than 2 for a 2-way.
Size of bass driver:
The lower the note the more air has to be moved on each cycle for the same sound level, so the cone has to move more at lower frequencies. For any given output at any given frequency the same amount of air must be moved, so a smaller cone must move further than a larger cone. Therefore the smaller the cone the faster it has to accelerate, move and decelerate faster on each cycle (e.g 50 times a second for a 50Hz tone, etc) than a larger cone. The more the cone has to move the longer the magnet gap has to be with linear magnetic strength, or the longer the voice coil must be, and the more flexible the suspension must be.
All these factors tend to make larger cones more capable at lower frequencies - however it is more complicated tgan that because for the same construction a larger cone is heavier and so has more inertia, requiring more force to start and accelerate and change direction and stop, and so inherently ‘slower’ than a smaller cone. So overall this is about the compromise of all these factors, affecting the ‘speed’ and timing of bass as well as available depth.
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Adequacy of headroom is a factor of the peak output capability of the amp, and efficiency of the speaker, and nothing to do with size of driver (an efficient speaker with a 15” bass driver may give all the peak output you need from a low power amp, but an inefficient speaker even of only a 6 inch driver may drive the amp to clipping trying to get decent peak levels.)
Of more significance is how ‘easy’ the speaker is to drive, which is more about the interactions of the driver with the enclosure, and the design of the crossover, as reflected in the impedance curve. Some speakers need a much more capable amp than others to keep the bass under control, and that cannot be assessed from number or size of drivers.
Thank you
Have you fired the speakers up ?
how do they sound to you ?
do you listen to music with broad variety or only a few specific genres ?
regards
I agree
I should have put it the other way
But what i meant was that the SN2 at 80W might not have the steam to handle 2 nos 12 inchers + 2 nos 5 inchers + 2 tweeters + the large cabinet
as capable an amp the SN2 is really.
regards
Thank you for being perceptive and thank you for your reply
is a 2 way standmount ( possibly ) better at imaging and separation ?
while larger speakers will be about soundstage depth and width and not too much separation and focus ?
These are things that have to be heard to be believed but i guess audition of DiY candidates is not a possibility … and a DiY resale provides very low return.
Therefore - the logic of this discussion is to get on board as many input points as i can…
I am sure i will keep this thread and these conversations in mind when i pull the trigger or simply decide to rest for longer with my already nicely playing 2.1 speakers
Best
mpw
Rob
what were the decision factors ( apart from price ) that made you go in for this design ?
what were the previous speakers ?
regards
mpw
And the point I made is that that amp power need is nothing to do with driver size or cabinet size, but about sensitivity and about ease of driving, with ease of driving to do with the crossover and the acoustic loading of the drivers in the enclosure, which is not directly to do with enclosure size. You can have a huge cabinet with a 15inch driver with a sensitivity of, say, 93dB/W, and you can have a small cabinet with small drivers with a sensitivity of only, say, 84dB/W. You can also have vice versa. The less efficient speaker will require 8 times the amplifier power to give the same loudness - meaning that it will push the amp into clipping and distortion, and limit output, when the same amp driving the more efficient speaker will barely be ticking over.
http://speakerenco.nl/Products/Vifa-Vivace
Specificaties
| vermogen: | 150 Watt |
|---|---|
| rendement: | 92 dB/1W/1m |
| impedantie: | 4 Ohm |
| frequentie bereik: | 22-22.000 Hz |
| hoog: | Scan-Speak D3004/6620 Se |
| mid: | Vifa NE123-W-04 |
| laag: | Vifa NE 265-W-04 |
| Afmetingen: | HxBxD 105 x 31,9 x 33,4 cm |
92 dB, easy to drive. Only the 4 OHM needs some current.
Except what the sensitivity tells you is simply that it does not take a lot of power to play at decent level, rather than how much of a demand it is on the amp to control well, The nominal impedance is just that, a low 4 ohm - but no idea of the minimum, nor the shape of the impedance curve
The fat Bass from this speaker + the great mid + the sparkling high
Physically the bass port is on the front, so i can place them near the wall.
Ik was listening at a DIY store in the Netherlands, (speakerland in Oss (google it 
))
I have built many speakers in the last 20 years. (not every speaker here on the photo’s)
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