Experience.
I’ve heard a lot stuff through decades, both expensive, fair prices, cheap and insane expensive.
Many times I missed the Prat factor.
Thats a great question 
More than I can remember, through three decades or more.
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That’s interesting. I assume, then, that you own either a Statement or a NAP 500DR, which, relatively speaking, is close to the Statement.
Although there aren’t many alternatives at this level, there are still a number of European manufacturers whose flagship amplifiers compete in the same league: Vitus, Gryphon, CH Precision, Goldmund, Soulution, Pilium, to name but a few.
I imagine you’ve had the opportunity to hear some of them in your own system. If so, what loudspeakers are you using?
Did you really find that none of those flagship amplifiers was interesting? Were they really that boring and lacking in PRaT?
Which ones among those you tried at home left you with that impression?
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Fact is DENON, MARANZ,MCINTOSH, LUXMAN,ACCUPHASE to name few manuacture their disc players as sacd players,I imagin for a reason.As for me there is no question I have a lot of sacds.
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Naim might have had the monopoly on PRAT about 40 years ago, but just about everything has it these days and some more so.
I feel it’s just something to say rather than have any real meaning.
Matching/balancing is really important as well as the best source you can afford, start off with this and you can then pick the other components to get the sound you are after.
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I heard several times Soulution, Constellation and CH Précision with Magico, as well as FM Acoustics with their speakers, Accuphase, Esoteric Grandioso, Goldnote, McIntosh, Audio Research, on different occasions in spécial shows in hifi shops. As well as Vitus Ria101 integrated, Dartzeel integrated.
So 11 brands among the most know today.
None of them had the addictive Prat. Lots of attributes, but less involving than Naim, Ear Yoshino or Gryphon. These last have that visceral and propulsive quality that many lack.
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As said matching kit up is what you need to do.
I hate constellation amps with dCS.
Magico speakers need to be matched well.
So do focal speakers.
It no good having everything the same in a system as uou end up with too lean, or too heavy, etc. Its about balance.
Take a valve amp, pair ot with a valve pre and valve dac, you will probably end up with a very warm sounding system thats lacking detail snd speed. The same can be said if you go the other way.
But get that balance right and its possible to have it all or atleast be close to it.
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Couldn’t say it clearer myself
I didn’t say that boring, but most of them didn’t Prat as most Naim amps.
Your “assuming and imagining” conclusion agenda is interesting, but don’t change my words please.
Thats your word, I’d not express it same league.
Even some other Brands are fine for various people, does not mean we all have same priorities.
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Boulder has great PRaT and very realistic multi-dimensional soundstage.
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Since you switched from Naim to another make of HiFi kit the majority of your posts on the Naim forum are critical of Naim or praising your new brand.
That is systematically ‘having a dig’ at Naim.
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Why does Naim need to bring out new product?
Just like my other big interest photography, people expect a continuous stream of new product, replacing last years model. On photo forums it can be extreme. People wonder when XYZ will be updated a few weeks after its release. The same people then complain that their gear has no resale value, when they must buy this years model. (see the thread running here right now)
Audio technology is pretty settled, I cannot see any big technological breakthrough in amplifiers, speakers, or sources. The past earthquake moments of CD and Streaming are now in the past.
One thing I noted from the pictures of HiFi fairs posted here recently, is that a lot of “High End” gear is now more about shiny bling than maybe sound. Simple elegant black boxes maybe do not cut it anymore.
Some statistics cited in recent articles on a HiFi mag I visit, hint that the HiFi world is massively overcrowded.
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Somewhere along the line, the thread has morphed from what people “expect” into the ol’ list of things they wish for. Which is not even remotely the same thing.
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I didn’t heard, neither MBL , Audionet, …
Quite sure Burmester and Pass Labs lack Prat.
I haven’t really changed i feel. I always say what i think. I was critical of naim or anyone if i felt like it.
I guess back then i didn’t know what i know now, plus naim was in a different place to now, i just feel they haven’t really moved on in a decade in a direction i would of thought they would have and i guess i feel a bit disappointed with that, as i would much rather see them doing well than not.
Thats why i have hope that the new owners will let them fly once again rather than hold them back as thats what has happened
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It’s a real problem. In today’s world younger generations expect new product at break neck speed. They are conditioned to this by phone, IT and Audio visual product releases.
Older folks (us) probably more appreciate measured change, quality and put serviceability and the right to repair higher on the list.
Where is Naim aiming at? If it is us older fogeys they stand the risk of being left behind, overtaken by the continuous new stream of cheaper and increasingly better higher end of eastern products, appreciated by the young, tech hungry demographic but keeping the more affluent mature customer happy (I exclude myself from the affluent bit).
It’s a fine line to thread and I am glad I don’t have to make that decision.
Would I have to, I think I’d split the company up, making the higher end, less re-release intensive stuff in the UK as now and introduce another set of products under another name but associated with and engineered with Naim but manufactured in China as to not confuse the demographics and product lines. Think Toyota/Lexus, Rolex/Tudor.
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Two observations I would make. Naim are without doubt a very different company to the one I first bought my 42/110 from way back in '85. Also the whole hi-fi scene has changed completely since those days. I would characterise Naim back then, like Linn Products, as one of the manufacturers who dared to challenge the status quo and the establishment and do things differently. It seems to me that what has happened in the intervening decades is that Naim has now very much become part of the establishment itself. The establishment has changed.
Personally what I don’t seem to see now are the really exciting ground breaking and challenging products that seemed to appear regularly back then. The IBL, SBL and DBL speakers are good examples, as are Linn’s Kans, Saras and Isobariks. Maybe such products in reality are still there but I just don’t recognise them for what they are - I don’t know. Anyway it all seems a lot less exciting and fun than it did all those years ago. Or maybe the excitement is still there for younger people and I’ve just got older and cynical. In other words maybe it’s me that’s changed as much as the hi-fi scene has…
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For me, I think the big shift is at the entry level. When I got into hifi, the only way to get a decent sound was to get a hifi system, amp, speakers and some kind of source. Even the mass market kind of liked this idea as Dixons etc sold a ton of fake-hifi one box systems that looked like a stack of separates. I think if you started with separates, upgrading becomes a no-brainer, and even replacing a Sony, JVC etc. fake separate system with actual separates still made sense if you wanted better sound. So there was an entry into better stuff that wasn’t a big change from where you started in terms of fitting it into a room.
Today it’s very different. Most people now prefer active speakers and these have pretty much 100% replaced hifi style systems in most electronics shops. All you see really in Currys and elsewhere is Sonos and similar things. And to be fair, the tech has progressed so far that you can buy a pair of active speakers for £1000 that can stream anything over WiFi and for most people sound pretty good, still better than the old fake stack systems did.
That is now where the mainstream market is, and there’s no organic upgrade path from there to a more traditional hifi setup. The average consumer now isn’t interested in big speakers and stack of electronics. So I think the bottom end has been cut off, and what’s left is hugely competitive.
I do wonder if part of the reason is music is so easy to stream these days that it’s lost some of the importance it once had which in turn is not driving a desire to hear it in better quality so the want to buy hifi has also waned.
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What about the Atom and Nova? They pack an astonishing amount of technology into two small packages . In the eighties you wouldn’t dream of such products ever existing.
Old hat to some, ground breaking to me
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Really? The Nova is a receiver in my view. Radio has given way to streaming as the mode of transmission and while some prefer to deny it because they think receiver is a dirty word that’s exactly what they are. Unusual for Naim. But not unusual in general.
I agree. The Atom and Nova are truly fantastic at their price point, and higher up the 300 series (and NAP 250) are incredible too. Caveat, this is gonna depend on your ears, YMMV etc.
It’s true that the Chinese have flooded the low end and own it, and Naim could not hope to compete. And the upper end has seen a lot of new high quality players in recent decades.
The world has clearly changed since the 1980’s, Naim are not the only game in town anymore, but they still offer a great proposition in markets where they can win.
And that’s the point, knowing where you can win. This is not just hifi, it’s all businesses. The best thing my bank did in the last 20 years was working out that we were getting killed in markets we didn’t need to be in, so we scaled back to markets where we can win, and it worked, we have a good business and are very profitable - and the share price is through the roof.
I hope Naim keep on doing what they are very good at, but new products cost a fortune to develop and is risky - so they need to be very sure they can compete and make money; spending a fortune on a SN4 (or whatever) that doesn’t sell enough could be existential.
I suspect they’ll make a big contribution to the AV market and be PROFITABLE and that might mean they can remain a force in the stereo market.
But I don’t have a crystal ball.
Final word, if it was up to me I’d like to see a new top quality Core!
Tony 
The issue is not that Naim needs to come up with products constantly like some of the Chinese companies. They do not.
The issues are
A) there are obvious holes in the product line…eg a cheaper NC entry point that are going unfilled.
B) naim continues to make their products more industry standard to fit into mixed systems, but their marketing is always Focal Naim. This is schizophrenic.
C) the dealer network is unhappy and vanishing.
the products they do come out with…eg NC series are fantastic and great value for moeny.
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