Wish I hadn’t read that. I’m at 252 now. Does that mean I’m going to end up with a 52 in the future? I’m going to have to explore it one of these days😅
This the new definition of backwards listen😄
552 
tangent:
I reveresed the polarity to my main speakers (both) as their time alignment seemed ‘out’.
When I swapped the +ve and -ve connection (driver now pushes OUT on the leading edge it would seem), it fixed a problem were some things just didn’t sound right…
after listening to a few familiar artists/recordings and idea of what was happening to the sound formed in my head, and a possible solution came to mind.
Turned out it was a necessary solution- it was fatiguing listening with the speaker drivers pushing the wrong way for proper time alignment…(notes in a natural way/‘as it should sound’)
Not sure if this makes for a great trick regarding ‘all Naim kit’ (aligned) vs mixing and matching and finding ‘non Naim’ stuff a poor fit, or some such (ie ‘on purpose’ and used nefariously to maintain ecosystem sales),…
but it is fair- since I fixed the driver movement to be musically correct (reversed polarity to BOTH speakers), I now hear so much more detail from the amplifier that I can easily pick up the sibilance and grating sounds that the shitty internal bridge in my Nait XS3 uses for the RCA inputs to the mainboard.
So, ‘yeah’, need to now use the DIN inputs to fix the sound of the CABLES.
Hiline (DIN to RCA) aside at the dealers…
seriously though… the sonic improvements from making the drivers push the sound correctly was HUGE.
As someone who rigged hifi quadraphonically since I was a preteen… I have no issues with esoteric speaker placements. (its about the MUSIC!)
My DAC has a switch to select the absolute phase (the equivalent of your manual reversal of both speaker connections). My understanding is that the normal phase (marked positive on my DAC) is how it should be - though possibly something else in the system might reverse(?). Apparently some CDs have reversed phase, and changing corrects that - but then the correct phase CDs are wrong! So some people identify which way sounds best on an album by album basis, and change accordingly. Simple with switch to do, less so if you have to swap the wires! I have no idea if sources other than CD ever have reversed phase.
I’ve had DACs that have a polarity button, and as said, can inverse the feed (“can’t you hear the attack on the violins?” a conductor/composer friend would say when switching it…).
since the Naim amp has been in place it has been ‘a thing’- that the speakers were not aligned correctly for true leading edge impulse from audio signals…
switching those cables was way more obvious, to me, than any polarity button on a DAC.
maybe the excursion time of a speaker driver is much greater than the polarity flip on the DAC - my ears can easily hear the time improvement from the speakers by running this way…
masked sibilance being now obvious etc… DAC polarity never touched this level of change, to me…
at most I found it the slimest/slightest bit of ring/echo and decay info being minutely realigned, and certainly in a ballpark of being noticeable by a conductor, easily, as their ear training leads to that sort of precision.
I do understand about some recordings polarity being reversed, but I take that as further evidence that most truly do not have hearing at that level of refinement, wo neither the consumers or production team notice or care…
I wouldnt insist my DAC has an polarity button, but do see the benefit.
with regards to the Nait XS3 and my particular speakers warranting a polarity reversal, I think that is seperate to digital polarity, and was very worthwhile to set (significantly less fatiguing).
When you say time aligned, what are you referring to? Aligning with what? Between drivers, speakers, room?
I don’t understand that. If the phase is inverted, any means of inverting again to make it normal would surely have the same effect.
Meanwhile if it is the case that some recordings are inverted and others not, which way round (of cables or switch) is best will vary.
what do I mean? (alignment of drivers, correctly, with regards to ‘time’)
Well; listening to some Jack Johnson, very simple music vs symphonic etc… Jacks’ vocals were rendering the middle before the beginning … it was subtle, arguably, but it WASN’T right.
When I swapped the cables, correctly to my senses would the sound roll out across the room…
The first part of an inhalation and note not coming after what should follow…
That is a different matter - changing polarity of one speaker will change its drivers’ timing in relation to the others, but changing both doesn’t alter their alignment with one another nor relative timing. Nor does it change the relative timing of, say, bass mid and treble drivers, relative timing is fixed by crossover and/or physical position (alignment) in the speaker relative to listening position.
What absolute phase does change can be illustrated in terms of the bass drum, if pictured facing towards the listener and struck on its rear surface, probably the most common setup live outside of orchestral music: the initial pulse, before any continuing vibration, is forwards, towards the listener. With correct phase the bass driver will reproduce that by starting with a forward movement. If phase is reversed somehow, the bass driver will start with an inwards motion.
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There was/is a reviewer who used to advocate turning your speakers around so that they faced away from you. He claimed that this actually produced a much more lifelike sound. I never tried it as apart from anything else it just would have looked daft! But he was possibly on to something as it would have produced a more realistic omni-directionasl diffuse sound rather than the ‘beaming’ effect normally produced.
The concept of a sweet spot for listening, of having to sit rigidly in one place or it all falls apart is fundamentally unrealistic in my view. An excellent and lifelike set up should convince from wherever it’s listened to - as in real life. In my experience the best systems can still sound really good even if listened to from another room. Much like real musicians playing.
But certainly I want to be able to listen from anywhere in my room and still experience totally lifelike sound. If we’re aiming for reality then that’s how it has got to be.
IIRC that was Jimmy Hughes. He did have quite an interestingly proportioned listening room with differing levels and also used Impulse speakers, which were located in the bottom corners of the lower level with him listening in the upper level. I think that was it, but it was a long time ago now, so the memory may not be so reliable.
Yes it was JMH. And yes he did have Impulse H1’s in that unusual room. He has said in recent on-line reviews that he used the Impulses for around 30 years, eventually combining them with Klipsch Heresy’s to make a ‘full range horn hybrid’! How eaxctly that worked I don’t know but it would have been fascinating.
He now apparently uses Klipsch Cornwalls and says they are far better.
JMH’s listening room. You can see the Impulse H1’s in the corners and firing backwards.
On top of these are a pair of Arcam speakers I believe. I recall him deescribing how he e had modified these by removing the internal stuffing etc. At one point I believe he used them with DNM amplification instead of his previous Isobariks and judged them to be preferable.
Yes, Jimmy Hughes. IIRC he also used to open speakers and remove acoustic treatments put in by the manufacturer who had spent development time playing with correct amount and position to give best they could achieve, yet he claimed they sounded better without. Clearly he wasn’t interested in neutrality but preferred colouration… He and his compatriot Peter Belt were key triggers to my ceasing to buy/read hifi magazines.
Speakers facing backwards will have a different effect from the listener facing backwards - in the latter case the only modification to the sound reaching the eardrum is due to ear shape and any difference in relative sensitivity and phase at different frequencies at the HF end. Speakers facing backwards will alter frequency balance unless facing a perfect reflector, and the the dominant sound of directional highest frequencies will be from reflections from the wall behind, which will be delayed relative to lowest frequencies which are effectively non directional, smearing the timing.
To be fair I read a piece from him on-line where he said that he would never do anything like that now and that it was silly. However as an impressionable young man I took his advice and removed the stuffing from my KEF Coda III’s and also bolted the drive units in place (replacing the cross-head wood screws). They were never the same again and I replaced them with some small Castle bookshelf speakers soon after.
JMH was, at least in those days, a total maverick. Some of his ideas were really ‘out there’, such as sealing around all doors and windows with tape to make the room air-tight, which he reckoned improved the sound. But his pieces were never less than thoroughly entertaining and I confess I used to eagerly look forward to the next issue of Hi-Fi Answers to read them!
exactly, some speakers such as PMC’s are sloped to address TA between drivers but changing polarity on both is very suspect
Quite the opposite reaction to mine! But before he appeared on the scene I had made a thorough study of speaker design, and had a good knowledge of physics including some knowledge of sound/acoustics, .
I don’t listen backwards but a lot when sitting in between my speakers which are on the 2 sides next to my desk in the study. It’s grown on me and is very immersive and spacious, ultimate open back headphones.
I also sometimes enjoy listening to my main system (not loud) from the next room doors wide open - one of the good ways to tell good SQ actually, e.g. pianos etc.
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I would never allow my scientific knowledge to become a barrier to open-minded experimentation. An ingrained curiosity is the hallmark of a true scientist. What happens if…?
Open minded experimentation is one thing, and indeed to be encouraged. (Of course after any initial play, to be scientific about it, if there seems to be some new phenomenon, repeating with steps to verify the apparent results.) Delusional unverifued rantings that mislead other people, such as when writing in a supposed non-fiction journal (in this case hifi magazines) are quite another matter. As you said yourself of the reversed speaker assertion, the author later admitted it was silly!
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