I use mine cascaded, only because i have a Cisco switch located with my network kit In another room and the EE is in the lounge with the Hi-Fi. Worth trying both options and see what works for you.
Straight from router here in a small network for audio.
Off the back of my central Cisco.
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If you put the EE device between the catalyst switch and the router, the catalyst switch will be group protecting the streamer… assuming you have nothing plugged into the EE device.
Hi Simon, what protection does it give?
IGMP multicast group data protection. Less capable switches just gratuitously broadcast all group data to all ports and ignore whether a host is a member of a particular group and needs the data. This results in a processing overhead in the streamer. More processing often results in a lesser SQ, although I suggest for most home networks it’s similar but not as extreme as SQ difference between WAV and FLAC. The latter requires more processing overhead.
These days our home networks, unless very simple, will typically contain several non local groups of varying degrees of data throughput.
In networks, there are three main types of data distribution…
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unicast data. This is where data is sent point to point typically but not always resolved on an IP address such as 192.168.x.x. mapping to a network (MAC) address. These two addresses are bound using ARP which is a protocol that uses 3) below. This is what we mostly talk about on this forum. Switches work on network addresses, not IP addresses.
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multicast data. This is where data is sent to a a group of devices, this is where a device subscribes to a group address. An example of a non local group IP address is 239.255.x.x. The group IP address is associated with the unicast IP address and network address. This is used by UPnP discovery and by Roon for example.
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broadcast data. This is where data is sent to all devices in a subnet… this is typically for core network functioning purposes, and the address is typically, though not always the highest IP address in the subnet that all devices automatically subscribe to. Typically not much data is sent as broadcast.
All switches handle 1) and 3). Less capable or basic switches fall back to managing 2) as 3).
More capable switches ( and more capable ISP routers) like the Catalysts manage option 2) as well.
Routers such as BT Smart Hub2 are rather capable here and process correctly, and also provide a network IGMP snooping querier to help keep quality wifi access points switches properly updated with group memberships in the home network. This is all seamless underneath the covers… no user intervention required.
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thanks for the explanation
So what benefits does one get with ether regen or the English electric switch.
I am no engineer, so trying to underestand
- maybe better clock? - but why is this needed?
- maybe some kind of EMI reduction…
if I were to buy an EE, where should it be placed?
I have a telecom fiber box (from the telco which provide internet and TV services) in the telco “box/cabin” at home which has a 4 port gigabit output
One of these outputs into a 8 port gigabit switch
so total of 11 outputs to yet another device (seems passive) which routes all this over various network ports over my home.
I could either replace the basic 8 port gigabit switch with the EE or, just put the EE close to my streamer.
thanks in advance for the advice.
From what I can gather these devices focus on two things.
- physical layer serial clock stability… so reducing the noise power in the modulated voltages being sent on the serial line twisted pairs. Think of FM radio transmission.
- reduced common mode noise transmission.
So it’s really very little to do with actual network optimisation operations…
In short they appear to be acting as some sort of active Ethernet physical connection noise impeder.
So I suggest putting your EE between your streamer and anything else… kind of like an Ethernet coupler.
BTW those devices that you refer to, as described none of these things can be passive, but they could possibly be PoE
thank you.
So a standard low cost switch, does it provide any level of galvanic isolation on the ethernet ports, or any kind of noise reduction?
All switch’s, incl those in wireless routers, plus Naim & NAS ports all have galvanic isolation. A basic NAS - switch - Naim route has four.
so what enhanced galvanic isolation does the EE offer over normal switches?
None in particular.
What those switches offer is related to clock stability and noise reduction as @Simon-in-Suffolk described.
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It doesn’t claim to have greater galvanic isolation. It clams to have a good clock, general noise reduction stuff, and most importantly, sounds great on the back of my Cisco.
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so question for @Simon-in-Suffolk
you answered as above “physical layer serial clock stability… so reducing the noise power in the modulated voltages being sent on the serial line twisted pairs. Think of FM radio transmission.”… where is the noise power in modulated voltages coming from?
also common node noise, what is that?
Who knows, maybe just marketing speak.
But looking at the internals they have what looks like a line of discrete isolators rather than the usual dual port blocks or single port chips, so maybe that might help with cross-talk.
It comes from tolerance instability in crystal clocks circuitry and the such like. Clocks provide a frequency modulated voltage/current to a given tolerance. You can design clocks within reason to be as stable as you require for a cost.
Common mode noise is a varying current of typically many aggregated frequencies with respect to ground. It’s called common, as the noise current is respect to ground as opposed to between its conductors.
High speed digital electronics, and basic low cost switching powersupplies, LED lighting etc are great sources of common mode noise. Common mode noise will conduct along conductors like interconnects, mains leads, speaker leads, USB leads and Ethernet leads.
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Sorry for being a bit backward here but i’m starting to lose track on the tech side of things. So can someone help me a little here please. I am just about to pull the pin on a EE switch to replace my Cisco Catalyst 2960 Series PD switch. Do i keep the Cisco in place or do i use the EE direct from my router? Also will i hear an improvement in sound quality after connecting the EE 8Switch either way?
Many thanks in advance for an answer to my questions.
I guess it is your own personal choice. I use mine just connected to router, which is also connected to 272, Uniti Core and UPnP bridge.
Hi NoNaim,
thanks for that. Did you use a 2960 Catalyst before the EE 8Switch and are you pleased with the results?
Thanks again.
The best way to use your EE is like so:
[ISP_Router]----[Cisco 2960]----[EE]----[Your_Streamer]
You’ll then benefit both from the Cisco’s advanced features and from the EE “isolation”
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