True to form Stephen. Your yoying all the time is the reason I come back to threads like this as they are pretty dull otherwise.
Yes Naim have confirmed that careful positioning of the aerials is that RF energy radiates outside of the metal boxā¦ albeit we are talking minute amounts if RF energy here anyway at very high frequencies/tiny wavelengths. The field strength exponentially decays away from the antenna at a rate determined by the wavelengthā¦ wifi has tiny wavelengths.
The RF energy created from the Ethernet interface is a lot lower frequency (from around 31 MHz) and so has a longer and potentially more challenging wavelength, albeit that is not driving a resonant aerial as with wifi.
There are pros and cons hereā¦
To me the big variable with wifi is the frame spacing ā¦ which in the absence of WMM with Naim means the rspacing can be quite variableā¦ depending on what else is happening with the radio channel on the access point.
Although on Ethernet Naim also donāt use DSCP, on most consumer switched home networks I would expect a far more consistent frame spacing.
However despite this, this has been mitigated to some extent whilst streaming with the new spooling technique on the current Naim streamers compared to the first gen streamers.
I joined the Naim family by way of a Muso-2 which Iāve had for a year. I am just amazed by the depth of knowledge of the members here. After downsizing from a separates setup, I thought the Muso-2 was just going to be a set it and forget it device. But maybe itās my instinct to tinker and after reading the forum posts, it got me to mix things up. Hereās what Iāve tried and yes, even with a Muso I can hear SQ differences. First it was wired connection, via power line ethernet, then it was wired via Moca adapters, then I added an optical bridge via a pair of fiber media converters, then I switched out to a Cisco 2960 replacing a TP-Link switch. Then I tried wireless which turned out to be a challenge. With the help of Steve Harris I think Iāve got that worked out. In any case, I can only imagine the amount of gear changing and configuration modifications done by those with more complex systems and more components.
So what did I conclude. I like the wireless. It takes a bit of the edge off the sound that at times to my hearing seems somewhat strident. The pace and rhythm remains intact. The fiber media converters did the same but at too much of a price in pace and rhythm.
Bottom line is that in addition just sitting back and enjoying great music; itās a hobby too!
Errā¦because SQ and stability are way better wired, thatās why.
Iāve had my share of wifi stability issues with a Muso-2. So I understand that downside. Once those issues were resolved I actually prefer the SQ of wireless in my setup. See my previous post in this thread. No switch, no cables, no converters; just a power line to the Muso.
These issues are totally system dependent, and we all have differing set-ups which affect SQ of an ethernet based system.
My Muso first gen was (is) hopeless via wifi, with continual drop-outs. SQ and stability is however much better with a simple ethernet wired connection to my router/switch.
The āYMMVā mantra is entirely applicable here!
Not possible to log into the opticalModules that are using them so will just have to wait and see and trust. Not using them in my Cisco switch and wouldnāt, but I also found oM to oM to sound better than the 2960 SFP out to oM (that was with MM). Ultimately will probably end up with one oM straight into an opticaRendu streamer.
Reading elsewhere, I see that some use Etheregen switch, with optical SFP to Sonore module , then ethernet to streamer.
They say having the best sound quality with that connection.
Yes I am looking at the opticalRendu, to possibly connect directly to my Catalyst 3560 for a true optical connection. (I notice Sonore advise against using media converters and then electrical connection to streamer for electrical isolation reasons just like I have done on this forum, because it doesnātā¦)
The information seems lacking on the SFP transceivers supported by the Optical Rendu ā¦ the text seems all vague and genericā¦ do you know?
I assume any short haul SX type SFP transceiver as they mention only OM1 fibre cableā¦?
Hi Simon,
I might consider a Sonore Optical Module, and connect it to the streamer like so:
[Catalyst 3560]----[Sonore OM]----[ND555]
It is a simple setup, which is good, and could result being better then EE or ER.
My choice in terms of the SFP transceivers goes evidently to a pair of CISCOs.
This little Sonore OM could be an interesting surprise.
Do you mean that Sonore advises against the following setup?
[ā¦]----[Sonore OM]----[Streamer/DAC]
I am not sureā¦ there are two things at playā¦ but obviously trial and error is there to doā¦
- common mode noise and RF / electromagnetic interference is avoided with direct fibre connection
- serial line code clock stabilityā¦ now I believe this comes from the host with SFPs, but I am looking into this. If it is from the host, then a switch like the EE could continue its clock stability benefits right the way through to a streamer on a true fibre connection. If there is a media converter, then the line code is reclockedā¦ and so you have decoupled the EE clock.
These two are not dependent on each other, so you might get a benefit from one and a cost in the other, but still like how the noise is shaped and the resultant sound.
If wanting to achieve 1) in my post above itās not recommended as it is not achieved unless there is some benefit due to the connected switch having high levels of common mode noise, but clearly you can still get the advantage of 2) using their stable reclocking,
Itās in one of their FAQs
Last time I looked there was an SFP module included with the opticalRendu when you buy it, so I assume it would be ready to go with an OM1 cable with LC plug?
I may be missing something here, but the USB input on a Naim streamer generally has a limited range of functions mainly around reading from USB storage. I had previously written off the opticalRendu on the assumption that it wouldnāt work.
Why USB?
The Sonore Optical Module is a fiber media converter.
The idea is the following:
[Catalyst 3560]----(optique fiber)----[Sonore OM]----(Ethernet)----[ND555]
Sorry Thomas, I was thinking of the opticalRendu that Simon was looking at rather than the OM!
As it happens I have Catalyst switches linked by OM1 fibre/SFPs. I guess one of them, which connects to my NDX2, could be replaced by a Sonore or other media converter, but Iām not sure what advantage that would bring.
Ok, thatās what I thought
Having both Catalyst switches linked through fiber makes the Sonore OM pointless.
Considering youāre using an external DAC, a Sonore Optical Rendu could well replace your NDX2.
But is the Optical Rendu better then Naimās NP800 platform? Not so sureā¦
Yes, I guess I could use the OR into my Chord DAC USB input. That would commit me to using only Roon instead of the Naim app, which Iām not sure I want to do right now as I quite like the Naim UI and have 2 other Naim streamers. So many choicesā¦
The opticalModule(FMC) and opticalRendu (USB out streamer) will take just about any 1g SFP I believe (Iāve tried single and multi mode, Cisco, Trendnet, TP-Link, and now Finisair). Keep in mind that the opticalModule is (currently) only 1g out (not 10/100) so will not work with older Naim streamers.
Going SFP to SFP on Cisco switches is not as good the opticalModules. Been there, done that. Ultimately the best would be opticalModule straight into the opticalRendu, there by bypassing any copper ethernet in the final chain. Many saying they are increased sound quality also by going oM to etherRegen and then ethernet out.
The Rendu series are high quality streamers imo. Unfortunately Iāve never had a chance to compare then to Naim streamers. I have an upgraded microRendu 1.4 (no longer available), though like I said planning on upgrading to an opticalRendu at some point. The SonicOrbiter OS it uses has an app known as Bridge UPNP which will allow one to stream Roon to an older Naim using a Squeezelite proxy. Works great into my UQ1. Went with Sonore over Naim due to price and due to the fact I needed a streaming only device to use the DAC V1.