Ethernet cables - YOUR LISTENING Shooutout Summary

[Nigel1957]

@gk_audio

Alpha V2

OK So I did a little reading. Ethernet cables come in different qualities, specified by a standard.

Higher-category Ethernet cables, such as Cat6 or Cat7, offer improved bandwidth and reduced interference compared to lower-category cables. These enhancements can theoretically lead to better data transmission with greater stability. However, when it comes to audio quality, the potential benefits gained may not be as evident as with the connections between a source, DAC, and playback device.

In most cases, the difference between using a Cat5e and a Cat6 cable may not be substantial enough for the average listener to notice. The cables themselves cannot enhance sound quality; rather, they ensure that the audio data arrives intact and in the correct order. Thus, while it’s reasonable to invest in higher-category cables for the sake of performance, the sound quality improvements may be negligible in practical application.

This costs Sigma X $2800

And is 6a

Cat6a (“a” for augmented) is the top choice for high-performance setups. It supports 10 Gbps up to 100 meters. Its frequency reaches 500 MHz. It also has better shielding (usually full foil wrap) to block interference. This cable is ideal for: Hospitals and schools use Cat6a to support large networks.

Telegartener connectors cost about €20! BTW

This theoretically better cable is cat 7 and costs €26 from a Hi Fi cable supplier in Rimini

I cavi Ethernet Cat 7 sono progettati per supportare comunicazioni ad alta velocità fino a 10 Gbps e una larghezza di banda fino a 600 MHz. Questi cavi sono retrocompatibili con le categorie di cavi Cat 6, Cat 6A, Cat 5 e Cat 5e, offrendo flessibilità nelle configurazioni infrastrutturali miste. La loro costruzione a doppia schermatura e l’uso di connettori retrocompatibili con RJ45 garantiscono una qualità del segnale affidabile anche in ambienti con interferenze elettromagnetiche. I cavi Cat 7 sono ideali per requisiti di rete molto esigenti, come streaming video e gioco online, grazie alla loro capacità di supportare larghezze di banda più elevate e una migliore schermatura per ridurre le interferenze.

If you want to exaggerate €53 for cat 8

These cables are certified to TIA standards

The Telecommunications Industry Association (TIA) is accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) to develop voluntary, consensus-based industry standards for a wide variety of information and communication technology (ICT) products, and currently represents nearly 400 companies. TIA’s Standards and Technology Department operates twelve engineering committees, which develop guidelines for private radio equipment, cellular towers, data terminals, satellites, telephone terminal equipment, accessibility, VoIP devices, structured cabling, data centers, mobile device communications, multimedia multicast, vehicular telematics, healthcare ICT, machine to machine communications, and smart utility networks.

So, your €50 Class 8 cable will be better than the €2800 class 6a cable. It is a question of specification and certification.

Or am I missing something?

[Geko]

@Nigel1957

So, your €50 Class 8 cable will be better than the €2800 class 6a cable. It is a question of specification and certification.

It might be technically better but is it audibly better? Nobody wants to spend £2k on an ethernet cable, and I have a whole box of ethernet cables that go from a few pounds to a few hundred pounds, ranging from CAT5 to CAT8 but none of them can match the sound I get from my Shunyata Sigma. It’s not all about specification and certification, that is unless you own a data centre.

[naimophile]

Higher end ethernet cable are normally cat 8.. no?

I mean, they are built in quality that can surpass cat 8 in terms of audio quality

[Nigel1957]

No the $2800 in my post is class 6a

[Markush8]

@Nigel1957

The cables themselves cannot enhance sound quality; rather, they ensure that the audio data arrives intact and in the correct order.

You haven’t watched the video yet I posted?

Digital audio is not about data integrity.

[Mike-B]

@naimophile

… they are built in quality that can surpass cat 8 in terms of audio quality

CAT numbers have no relation to audio quality. They are constructed to optimise higher or lower data transmission speed, bandwidth, and maximum effective length.

Naim support 10/100Mbps
Any standard Ethernet cable with Cat5e or higher is compatible and sufficient for the bandwidth.

Cat5e will give up to 1Gbps data speed & 100MHz bandwidth
Cat6a 10Gbps & 500MHz
Cat8 25-40Gbps & 2000MHz

[Nigel1957]

I did, and it is not about cables as such. Banging the DAC will cause obviously cause distortion.

[Blackbird]

Always those never having heard the talked about cables coming with AI technical facts claiming that those that actually have heard them are wrong pointing them at data sheets written by hobby engineers born 1957.

Fascinating. Long live curiosity!

[Nigel1957]

I did not use AI for this. I just found a nice summary of TIA standard. It took 30 seconds to find the price of the connectors in the €2800 rip off.

I am and Engineer, I am used to looking at specifications and standards. That is why, I can at least attempt to see though the marketing BS that some audio cable companies are selling at inflated prices.

I use a company in Rimini who will make up a cable with the same cable and same connectors for a fraction of retail shop prices.

[Blackbird]

So it’s bull but you haven’t heard them? Is that great engineering you think? Making statements without verification.

[Markush8]

1. It is not about data corruption, but electrical noise. You are right that the binary data usually arrives intact. Physically, ‘digital signals’ are actually analog square waves. As long as the voltage stays above or below a certain threshold, the data is interpreted correctly as 0 or 1. However, the cable transmits not just the data, but also electrical noise caused by impedance mismatches or shielding issues.

2. Noise creates Jitter, which is consistent. This electrical noise travels into the DAC and affects the sensitive timing clock (even in asynchronous connections like Ethernet). If noise shifts the ground floor or signal threshold slightly, it causes timing errors known as Jitter during the Digital-to-Analog conversion. This results in a distorted analog waveform.

3. This effect is measurable and reproducible. It is not random or ‘magic.’ Measurements by Jaap Veenstra showed that different network switches and setups result in specific, reproducible jitter values measured directly at the DAC chip’s clock input,. For instance, one setup consistently caused 98.17 picoseconds of jitter, while another caused 56.52 picoseconds.

4. Why we hear it. Neuroscience suggests our hearing has a much higher temporal resolution than previously assumed. Therefore, timing deviations of just a few picoseconds in the signal reconstruction can be audible as a loss of sound quality. 

[Markush8]

I maybe should start being a wine specialist and doing reviews without even having tasted them at all. Seems that’s the way things are nowadays

[Nigel1957]

@Blackbird

So it’s bull but you haven’t heard them? Is that great engineering you think? Making statements without verification.

It is enough to read the specification sheet. The $2800 with connectors priced €20 on internet, is TIA grade 6a. It is all in the spec sheet.

You can buy a superior Cat7 (better shielding faster transmission) for €50.

Specifications and standards guarantee a level of performance. We are dealing with a piece of copper wire carrying binary data. There is nothing to hear.

Sorry, but Engineers judge materials and components using specifications. The rest is just psychoacoustics at best or snake oil at worst.

[Nigel1957]

@Markush8

It is not about data corruption, but electrical noise. You are right that the binary data usually arrives intact. Physically, ‘digital signals’ are actually analog square waves. As long as the voltage stays above or below a certain threshold, the data is interpreted correctly as 0 or 1. However, the cable transmits not just the data, but also electrical noise caused by impedance m

Yes, exactly.

A €50 grade7 wire with connectors, has less probability of being corrupted than the €2800 grade 6a above. It is specified in the TIA standard.

[kampak]

There is nothing wrong in what you have stated.

But believe me, the AQ Diamond or Sigma X sound better (nearly wherever used for streaming music) than Cat 7 or 8 choosed from Spec Sheet.

But do not bother! Nobdy is forced to buy such a thing.

If you are curious → go for a demo!

If not: fine, too!

For me AQ Diamond is an incredible Product an I will try a Shunyata Sigma X at home. Thats for sure

[Blackbird]

@Nigel1957

The fact some ludicrously expensive digital transport cable sounds better is all down to you and psychoacoustics.

But you haven’t tried? Yes, no?

Those guys have put their school physics on trial and measure a frequency response and say, look, it’s just 0.3dB difference.

It’s like looking at a star with Amazon binoculars and say “I cannot see anyone move. No other life exists in space”.

Have a look over at Alpha Audio for some measurements that know audio instead.

[Wilfried]

I recently saw an Ansuz A2 Ethernet cable for sale at a reasonable price on the second-hand market. I remembered Mike12‘s post (Click here). He preferred it to AQ Vodka on the Silent Angel Bonn Switch. So I bought the Ansuz and replaced the AQ Vodka between the Silent Angel Bonn N8/Forester F1 and ND5XS2 in my system. The comparison:
AQ Vodka: emphasises vocals or lead instruments. For example, in ‘Saint James Infirmary’ (Babablues), the vocals or (later in the track) the saxophone are right in your face. Very impressive and gives you goosebumps. However, the rest of the soundstage recedes into the background and details are missing.
Ansuz A2: more homogeneous, musical and yet with finer resolution, the sound stage is balanced, more background details are audible. It gives you fewer goosebumps with the same track, but is more realistic and authentic. Tonally, the bass is deeper and more contoured. So the Ansuz stays where it is for now. My second AQ Vodka will remain between the wall socket and the Bonn N8 for the time being. Perhaps I will replace this with an Ansuz Ethernet cable in the future. For now, I am enjoying the music in my system, which has taken another small step forward.

[gk_audio]

@Nigel1957

Sorry, but Engineers judge materials and components using specifications. The rest is just psychoacoustics at best or snake oil at worst.

I do want to mention that I am an engineer, with a PhD in CS and specializing in network protocols, and have spent a lot of my time working on several layers of the OSI model, including the physical one. I am, by training, a major sceptic. I am also, by audition, a major believer in specialized ethernet cables for audio. Listen to the sigma first. If you can replicate it with off the shelf components do let me know so I can sell mine.

[Nigel1957]

@Nigel1957

Ethernet cables and switches move data between your streaming gear and your router. They transport packets using TCP/IP, which automatically checks for errors and resends any damaged data. The audio that reaches your streamer is either perfect or it isn’t.

@Blackbird

But you haven’t tried? Yes, no?

Those guys have put their school physics on trial and measure a frequency response and say, look, it’s just 0.3dB difference.

It’s like looking at a star with Amazon binoculars and say “I cannot see anyone move. No other life exists in space”.

Have a look over at Alpha Audio for some measurements that know audio instead.

Personally no. I cannot even think of paying so much for a cable.

But this is not school physics:

Ethernet cables and switches move data between your streaming gear and your router. They transport packets using TCP/IP, which automatically checks for errors and resends any damaged data. The audio that reaches your streamer is either perfect or it isn’t.

They are not measuring frequency response. Data arrives perfectly or it does not.

[Blackbird]

@Nigel1957

They are not measuring frequency response. Data arrives perfectly or it does not.

For your excel sheets it is correct. But in the world of audio where you LISTEN to a signal it is different. Anyway, you have decided and you have the helmet on. Good luck with your audio future! I’m sure it sounds great.