Ethernet cables - YOUR LISTENING Shooutout Summary

Streaming Audio
2552

The wire is transmitting binary numbers. The data arrives without error or it does not.

You can buy a higher spec C7 cable for €50. How can a lower spec 6a cable be so superior that it is worth paying 50x more. The fact they use €20 connectors tells me that the product is not worth 50x more.

Tell me what makes this €2800 so special from a technical point of view. I can understand that buying a Cat6a or Cat cable might be worthwhile, but I cannot see any justification for the exaggerated prices of some of these cables. Audioquest do not make the Cat level of their most expensive wires obvious.

2553

It’s the same expert claiming vibration control for DACs is of no use. Tell that to Steve Sells, tech director at Naim.. Troll.

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2554

If I remember, the equipment that needs vibration control, has it incorporated in the box.

Spikes do nothing if you go back to my OP.

BTW I am not trolling.

I am just very sceptical of super expensive accessories. I just refuse to believe a cable can cost 52x more than a cable with a higher specification, and be far superior. I see the makers of these super expensive accessories, provide very little hard technical data on their products. I see a lot of pseudo technical mumbo jumbo on these manufactures sites.

I have very good reason to believe, from personal experience, that a lot of HiFi reviews on the web are exaggerated at best and untruthful at worst.

2555

I would love to have found ethernet cables did absolutely nothing, but i found they did. Some certainly more than others. Some made things sound flat, Some over bright, etc. But I found a few that certainly worked well in my system and happy to stay with them.

I feel the more unwanted noise you can remove from the digital chain brings inpovements in SQ.

Reach your goal as far as a dac is concerned is probably the best thing to do before you start buying expensive ethernet cables and the like, but then what do i know.

Cheers dunc

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2556

I started using the phrase “wine tasting, minus the wine” back in 2018. :+1:

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2557

Yesyesyes.

But:

There might be something you do not measure (so it is not true / not possible…) because you do not know it has to do with dynamic current changes or something else…

So : as far as I can tell I love (at least in this case) what my senses tell me, Psychoacoustics or not.

This Hobby is about emotions (to be transmitted) and to know how to get them :slight_smile:

I am OK with my stuff, and still curious about this Shunyata Sigma X thingie, cat-number doesnt matter (Chord Music is not a cat classified cable but for music streaming a quite good one)

I have no PhD but know something about electrics and physics. I even have an idea

where that does not help.

I am out for now.

Thanks for your insight, Nigel1957

2558

Haha oh amazing! :smiley: Seems things have gotten even worse over the years. I guess trolling through threads and claiming things without the faintest willingness to learn from experienced experts or to listen at all makes any conversation a pain.

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2559

Great. Thanks for this. Also have been contemplating about this cable. It is quite reduced in price currently

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2560

@Nigel1957 I’ve had to remove a couple of your posts as they were cut and pastes that were full of commercial links. Please don’t cut and paste from such sites (better to make your own summary, or just paraphrase) as it’s very time consuming to edit and so deletion is the only viable option. I have also messaged you. Thanks.

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2561

0 and 1! how could I forget about this. Thanks for opening my eyes :eyes: or should I say my ears :rofl:? Damn, why did I not look at the data sheet? It was always there in front of me, and I ignored it…:scream:

On a more serious note: Most of those active here have gone through a long journey of hardware changes and upgrades. Is it so hard to imagine that there is quite strong knowledge here about how improved SQ manifests itself and that people here know about the tricks that your mind can play on you?

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2562

At least this thread enabled me to learn something. But confirm something I had already thought.

Cables and connectors can sometimes effect final sound quality, but I do not believe there is a need to spend huge amounts of money on connectors. Just buy adequately good ones.

The $2800 ethernet cables have fairly economic connectors that cost retail €20. The cable is rated at Cat6e, which is good, but better cable can be bought more cheaply. I saw a Cat 7 connecting cable at €53. I personally find it absurd that this connector, costs more than what I paid for my Naim XS3.

There are a good number of studies that confirm that we hear what we want to hear. If we expect a sound improvement we will hear one, especially if we have spent a huge sum on a cable. I think this is a pretty well known and accepted concept. There are many web articles about this and there are scientific studies if you wish to delve deeper.

Google this medical paper: Beyond the Sound Waves Emilian Kalchev

It takes a look at the Physiological, Psychological, and Societal Domains, that have a bearing on what we hear. I have read it, and those who believe a €2800 connector is better than a €10 connector should do too, reflect and then make up their own minds. It is clearly written for a lay reader.

The paper was mostly about “Burn In” but it concluded

The phenomenon of audio burn-in sits at a fascinating crossroads of empirical science and personal experience. While debates continue within the audiophile community, it is evident that our perceptions are shaped not just by equipment mechanics but also by our unique auditory physiology and sociocultural influences. By appreciating these complexities, we can foster a more comprehensive understanding of sound perception and its implications.

As one returning to HiFi after a few years away. I am very curious and perplexed about the utility and benefit of these very expensive accessories. I believe one of the causes that is causing the decline in interest in HiFi is the huge sums we are told we need to fork out to listen to music. I realise my €10,000 system is Pauper Fi, but I love the music I play on it and how it sounds.

PS. I have not engaged in personal attacks in my posts, unlike some who responded to me.

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2563

I have learnt a lot about the tricks that my mind plays during auditioning. Schemas, expectation, preset of attention to either space, timbre, emotion, all of this influences how music sounds. Some people audition a new hardware by paying close attention to music, others by doing the exact opposite and waiting to be captured by something unfamiliar. I think all have in common that they know that a true upgrade in SQ has a reproducible and undeniable quality. The spacing of instruments is different, there is more space around tones, there is detail that was not audible before etc… such undeniable changes can be caused by ethernet cables as well, although in my experience these are less pronounced than with switches or streamers or dacs; but this depends of course a lot on individual setups.

I am a neurologist and my knowledge in auditory perception is limited. But I am very convinced that there is no such thing as a brain derived “burn in”. If you hear harshness, it is not going to go away after several hours. Lukickly !! Otherwise we humans would have a serious problem :sweat_smile:

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2564

I feel a little embarrassed for you.

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2565

As I mentioned in my previous response, yes, 100% agree, the data arrives intact regardless of the cable used. The research that companies like shunyata do is on noise shaping, which is electrical noise that is carried into the dac chip simply because there’s a cable attached to the box. You are not paying for connectors, you are not paying for cable specs in terms of how much bandwidth it can sustain. You are paying for R&D on materials and filtering (cables include filters in this case, not off the shelf) that result in changes to the noise profile, not the data transmitted over the cable. Not subtle with the ND555. I’ll happily invite you to a blind test, if the results are not jaw dropping I’ll pay you the $2800.

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2566

I don’t know why you keep repeating your assumptions over and over again - unfortunately without embracing any of the detailed information and practical experience that is presented to you from a number of users here.
Again, this is not by any means about connectors or data integrity! To avoid being in a loophole I won’t summarize what has been presented to you again - but it’s sad to see when you completely deny everything from users that have decades of experience.
And btw no one here ever sad that you have to spend X amount on an Ethernet cable to hear an improvement. Improvements can be heard with a number of cables and different ranges like beginning with Supra , Furutech, Pink Faun, AudioQuest etc.
Of course nearly every retailer will provide you a cable for home-testing too, so you can finally experience on your own - and being no longer depending on your belief or imagination.

So it’s up to you if you really participate in a HiFi community like this and are willing to learn and broaden your horizon. Or keeping a fixed opinion about ethernet cables, isolation etc.
That’s the fascination of HiFi, there is so much to learn and in a global world of connected people with so much experience everyone can take advantage of that.

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2567

But some might just be well meaning enthusiasts, who’s advice might not be that useful.

With regards to cables I like to take a look at what equipment manufacturers are using.

A few years ago when the NC300 series was released I attended what was basically a 300 series promotion event at a hotel in Chester. Half a dozen speaker manufacturers all using NC300.

Every setup was using Chord C Stream, which cost about £75 for 1 meter. EVERY setup sounded superb. So I now use C Stream. :blush:

At the same venue, for the past two years, half the Naim systems sounded awful, even the ones using £1000 ethernet cables.

At another show I took a photo of what primare where using in what was an excellent sounding system. £60 coax spdif from streamer and £75 optical from CD transport. Ethernet didn’t appear to be anything special.

Owning and studying expensive cables seems like a hobby to me, which people obviously get great enjoyment from.

On the other hand, the majority of people can get enjoyment from music without buying expensive cables.

Neither is right, neither is wrong.

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2568

Well especially in a network environment a lot has been learned over the years. The impact of switches or Ethernet filters and Ethernet cables which were completely neglected back then have been realized as a huge potential for sound improvement.
So when walking around High End 2025 in Munich this was very obvious.

Though as mentioned, everyone has a different setup, is on a different stage in the journey, different budgets etc.
The rules of priority like speaker, source, amp, power supply, room acoustics etc. still apply. Though as digital audio is an integral part in most setups today it’s important to have these learnings in mind.

And getting back to the thread’s topic, it’s very helpful the more experience you have in any topic, like Ethernet cables, filter, switches etc. that will help people develop their system further and enjoy music and their journey in HiFi even more. And there is definitely a huge enjoyment in music without buying any expensive HiFi stuff at all.

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2569

I’ve developed my system to a point that I don’t actually use a switch or filters.
If the idea that an expensive switch is preferable to an inexpensive switch because it generates less noise. Why not simply eliminate the switch.

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2570

Sure, the simpler / less devices a setup makes things much easier. It’s more that users have different requirements, needs and for every use-case there are constantly interesting learnings, especially in recent years.

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2571

My network consists of a patch lead from the router to wallplate, 20m Cat5e or Cat6e to wallplate, chord c stream from wallplate to streaming bridge.

Do I need a switch or filters.