For my wife a 2 euro cable on the streamer sounds the same as the most expensive I have, also all gear and speakers on the house for her are similar sounding, she only likes the music that play out of them.
Trying to justify her an expensive cable makes no sense, “its a simple cable”, she says “why buy that one when the streamer gives you one free”, for that price I could buy this and this, etc, etc, etc.
Arguing about any cable is complex, some people understand and speak about the small incremental changes they give, for others is a non sense argument and is pure snake oil.
Never forget that the ones who recommend a cable they do it based on the system they own, not the one you have at your home, so any opinion and recommendation has to be taken with a grain of salt. The same with reviews.
Gosh… the collective experience and knowledge on this forum is just mind blowing. Having entered the world of streaming recently by adding an ND5 XS2 to my system, I’ve waded though this and many other topics. And my head spins a bit so this is a shout for some help/advise.
The ND5 is playing on wifi for about 2 weeks now. Just slipped it into my Fraim and got it up & running to get the burn in over & done with asap. It has been flawless from the first power-up. But reading through the forum I want to try it wired too. My network is quite simple:
The ISP provided cable modem/router is a Technicolor 7200, located in the proverbial closet at the switchboard/fuse boxes from the house under the stairs. The wifi is switched off, don’t need it downstairs.
An in-wall cable runs from the router to the first floor (living room & kitchen) connecting to an Apple Time Capsule. I think this is a Cat5e cable but I’m not sure. I got it installed during the rebuilding of the house some 6 years ago when streaming wasn’t even on my horizon. Replacing this cable would not be impossible but far from easy either.
That’s it… The ND5 is connected to the 5GHz wifi from the Time Capsule that is only 4 meters away in the same room. Internet and wifi is fast (300 Mbit/s) and super-stable.
The streamer is for Tidal and internet radio only. I have definitely no plans to add a NAS or other stuff. So I think/hope(?) I don’t need as switch either. The only upgrade I’ve done is placing the stock 3 euro 12V power supply from the modem/router for a ifi Power X unit. This was a bit of a jawdropper. A very clear improvement throughout. 100 euros well spend and the importance of a power supply proved once more.
To connect the ND5 to the Time Capsule requires an 8 meter cable. As this is try-out mode, I’ve narrowed it down to:
1: BJC Cat6 or 6a (they suggested the 6 btw)
2: Belden Catsnake 6a (from Designacable I guess)
3: AudioQuest Carbon CAT700 (DIY installation cable that is supposed to sit between the Cinnamon and Vodka)
Sorry for this lengthy post. Any help would be apprecated!
Catsnake 6a are made from Premium Belden 1303E cable and are assembled and sold by designacable on line in the UK. Just put ‘designacable’ in your search engine.
I recommend the floating screen option on the Catsnake 6a (there is a dropdown menu to select floating screen).
I would order a single shorter length first to try out in your system to see if it brings any benefits.
Agreed good ears are the one & only requirement. But please don’t misunderstand where I’m coming from on this; some of these boutique cables are very expensive compared to the commercial grade cables, it would be nice if these high profits were used to produce some actual data that shows us they are in truth what they claim to be.
My advice would be to approach the whole Ethernet cable thing with caution. In much the same way as I would suggest using Naim gear with the mains leads and interconnects supplied in the box before trying expensive upgrade cables, I would try a properly certified and tested cable from a decent commercial cable supplier first. There are plenty of them, such as RS, Farnell or Cable Monkey. (Avoid the dodgy super-cheap suppliers on eBay though!)
Then, if you feel the need to experiment, you can start to assess any possible benefit of spending a lot more money on an audiophile cable. Even at the lower end of this scale, the likes of BJC and Catsnake are charging in the order of 10 times the price of a regular cable supplier, and in my books it’s hard to see where the value comes from there. Of course, in the context of a Naim system it’s not a lot of money, and I think that can cloud one’s judgment somewhat, especially when you see streaming cables priced at 100 times, or even 1000 times the price of the basic product that still works reliably.
In addition to all that, the way network cables react to their electrical environment will be different in every situation, and the findings of others cannot be taken as a reliable guide to what will work best for you. Add to that the fact that it’s extremely difficult to eliminate expectation bias from your assessment, and the whole thing becomes a bit of a minefield. Good luck!
Thank you Chris. You’re so right about expectation bias. I’ve had to digest a few expensive mistakes in the past caused by exactly that.
I picked up a 19 euro - 30ft Cat5 cable from Bax Music shop and just hooked it up. Playing radio in de background as annoying family members want to use the house too. I’m curious if I hear a difference worth exploring further in the coming days.
I bit OT but I’ve found little about writing modems on the forum. The modem is sort of the ‘first stop’ in your house but maybe their role is of little influence?
I’m not convinced that a modem would affect sound quality, although I wouldn’t like to say that with absolute certainty. I notice you use an Apple Time Capsule, which does have a reputation for generating electrical noise so it’s perhaps worth thinking about how well isolated your HiFi is from that. Certainly worth trying to keep some physical distance between the system and any such devices, and power them from a different wall socket, or better still, a different mains circuit altogether.
I have lasted 8 months with a ludicrously cheap Vonets wireless bridge attached to my Innuos Zenith. It’s a cheap nasty plastic thing with a very short run of cheap ethernet (15cm maybe) and two perpetually flashing lights. Consequently it’s far too close to both the Zenith and the 202. There is audible noise through the speakers including the sound of my using my iPad. The bridge is plugged into a block with the Chord Hugo TT2 when the latter clearly needs its own socket.
Suffice to say it has nevertheless given the whole family more satisfaction than the CDX2/XPS2 has done for several years.
Anyway, we have ruled out running 30m+ ethernet from the router upstairs to the Zenith for the time being as we have lots of other stuff going on. So, the plan is to purchase something like a TP-Link RE650 AC2600 Wi-Fi Range Extender; plug it in about 3m away from the two columns of boxes and then run 3m of ethernet under the carpet across the fireplace to the Innuos.
I am of the view this will offer a small improvement on the DAC side with a big drop in the noise floor on the ethernet side of things.
So,
1 - are these reasonable assumptions about the impact of an improved repeater/bridge and locating it away from the boxes?
2 - which 3m run of basic ethernet cable should be a starting point? Streamer and DAC connected with Chord Epic. Should I go for 5 or 6? Merits of flat cable?
You know what? … Almost a ‘blimey’ moment. I had such low expectations to the point of no expectations but this (Chord Epic Streaming Cable 1m) addition is a great icing on top of an already delicious cake.
I have no experience of wifi extenders but have always found wired connection better than wifi.
The only ‘basic’ streaming cable I have experienced and works well in my set up is the Designacanle Catsnake 6a with the floating shield. No guarantee it will work well in your set up though. It is rather thick but is compliant.
Flat streaming cables will obviously fit better under carpets but I have no experience of these.
Mike - why not get a bog standard patch lead of say 5m length and try the Vonets located away from your 202 for a start. There is something else I will suggest you try later but this noise is not right and worth spending some time eliminating it.
@james_n the Vonets won’t take a lead. Its short run of ethernet is hard wired in. Very cheap device and the proximity to the 202/Zenith is clearly the cause of the noise. I can hold it in mid air and instantly lose most of the noise.
Thus why I need something, I think, like the TP-Link so I can locate it well away from the stack; plug any old cable in and confirm that the noise has gone. If it does then there’s an instant gain but after a suitable pause I can then start to look at better quality cables.
Any help would be apprecated!
