Ethernet Switch and Cables Mania

[Peder]

Well we have tried various combinations of grommets and the general conclusion is on a solid wall they have little positive effect, though on a palster board wall the effect is positive. Probably less vibration.
Some BJ cables have been in place for the last 2 day and they make more of a positive difference.

A worthwhile experiment though.

@Peter1480,…Hi,.Interestingly,.my philosophy in the installation-thinking is…

Several small,.or very small improvements,make one greater improvement in soundquality.
It’s a philosophy I’ve always worked on.

Then some can laugh at small rubber-feet during a Cisco.
But I know,.what five such small improvements are doing for a bigger,better soundquality.

ps torque settings not tested

Regarding torque-settings,.have probably you and Hungryhalibut misunderstood me.
It is the internal SMPS-card,.and the audioboard of your Cisco,which should be drawn to the best Nm-value for soundquality…see picture.

This has,.for example,Naim worked with for a long time.
Take Naim Allae as an example,.where Naim recommends different Nm-values for speaker-elements and stands.

Peter1480,.do you have a picture of the solution,.that you think works best for you with your Cisco.?

/Peder🙂

[Peter1480]

I would assume somthing like setting up SBL2, I’ll have to work out what torque setting just squashes the rubber grommets a whole nother 2 weeks out of my wifes life listening (I’ll convert her to prog rock yet!).

[Peter1480]

we have very solid stone and brick walls here in Scotland, so it’s direct fixing for us. But if you have wood or plaster board I think the rubber grommets are worth a try. Let your ears be the guide

[Michaelb]

Simon seems to understand the technical stuff best. From what I recollect it’s not a matter of port speed though, but of reclocking and switch processor demands.

[Michaelb]

It would make sense to do it with the same cables.

[Peder]

Less Vibration…

Probably less vibration.

• Quite right conclusion.

Let your ears be the guide

• As always .

A friend who has some apartment blocks called me.
He had some marble slices in the basement,.that he had hijacked into smaller pieces.

He wanted to test how these marble slices,.with different “feet”,see image 2,.would work under his powersupply to his pre-amp.
He has a Spectral-pre with external powersupply.

We made it simple,.and tested this on the floor, see image 1.

On image 2 you can see the different “feet” under each marble-slices.
It was very easy to hear the differences in soundquality,.between these four options.

The marble-slice at the top of the picture,.with the small rubber-feet ,contributed to the best soundquality.
Even the special black rubber-damped disc,.that lies during his simple powerstrip,was inferior during his powersupply,.than this marble disc with rubber-feet.

We also tested all these discs under his simple powerstrip,.picture1,and here was the special black rubber-damped disc best.
And,.believe it or not,but it was no problem to hear these differences in soundquality.

So,.two different materials and discs under these two products,became the best for soundquality.
It’s all about vibration,.so dare to try for yourself.

• Image1.

• Image 2.

/Peder🙂

[Innocent_Bystander]

I have dipped in and out of this thread over the months and read with a mixture of interest and incredulity, while trying to filter from it snippets that to me would make sense to try if ever I change my setup and stream music over a network. For now it makes me so glad my music doesn’t stream across a network, and even glad that I often struggle to hear differences when I do compare things that are not night-and-day different, though I don’t know whether it is because I have cloth ears or because I too easily get lost in music. Some peoples’ views I respect and am likely to go back to, while some others, I am sorry to say, seem to be inconsistent or even random, and so unlikely to be sources of reference. The thread may be better if a bit less repetitive, but I suppose being so long people have forgotten what has been said a while ago, and it is far too big a thread to read through from the beginning. Maybe someone will summarise sometime…

Meanwhile I am moved to wonder if music just sounds different in Sweden! (No offence or criticism intended, Peder)

[frenchrooster]

2 cisco in, 1 cisco out, 1 cisco in, 2 cisco out, add some vodka and cinnamon, and shake it all about.
The Ethernet Coktail! Put some blue jeans, switch off your doors, and drink it without moderation.

[Peder]

New Music Room

Another friend in my hometown,.has built a music-room of a storeroom-room behind his garage.

He has lowered the floor,.and made a new concrete floor.
He has also removed the inner-roof,.to get a bit higher ceiling-height.
As these rooms behind the garage in Sweden,.often have low ceiling-height.
Of course,.dedicated mains .

The interior is not really clear.
We have tested the room with a smaller music-system earlier,against the far wall,.and know that the acoustics are very good.
If you look at the ceiling,.you will see some of the secret in dampening the ceiling-reflexes.

• He who has this system in the picture above.

He has lent his Linn Isobarik speakers to my friend.
He also has DBL-speakers,.which he uses to this six-pack in the picture.

• This electronics in the picture is in the garage,.to avoid Vibrations and Microphonic etc.
The speakers and other things,.LP12,Streamer etc are in the living-room on the other side of the wall.

My friend with the room,.has himself both active Linn Isobarik and Linn Keltik.
But his Isobarik is under surface-renovation,.so he had to borrow this pair of black Isobarik. Image will come later this afternoon.

The reason I am showing this is,.that we are going to premiere-listening to a passive Isobarik system in that room this afternoon.
He has even so that he can run them actively.

And,.we shall also listen to a Transparent ethernet-cable that @Music_Lover have tested.

He thinks that this Transparent-cable is better in his system,.than Chord Music.
• It is,like Chord Music not cheap,.2 meters cost £3390:-.
But if you are looking for cables in Chord Music’s price-range,.then it can be an option.
Well,.anyway,it gonna be an exciting listening-afternoon.

Continuation follows…
/Peder🙂

[BertBird]

Looks quite special while I don’t like the concept of a separated listening room, music needs to be fir me totally integrated and is always on - unless I am watching tv…

[anon35279323]

Peder, which model and version of the Cisco do you recommend?
I have a C2960-8TC-L. V02.
Shall I go for an identical or??

[anon4216120]

Another friend in my hometown,.has built a music-room of a storeroom-room behind his garage.

And is that an Ikea Lack table? They get everywhere

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

Hi @TiberioMagadino, the issue you are dealing with here is the inter frame timing or spacing at layer 2. When you have a single switch layer buffer on the egress port to a switch with the media flow on it along with other flows then you as you know by default on a catalyst switch, the frames are treated first in first out. If you have only one media stream as a significant flow, then yes the interframe timing of the media flow will be largely unaffected… however if there are other flows, then your for the media frame spacing can become more variable. I had previously identified on the legacy streamers this had a detrimental impact.
Therefore the answer is to set a high priority egress queue on the egress switch ports between media server switch and streamer, having marked the the media server port as a higher priority using DSCP on the media server ingress switch.
It works well.
Only necessary really if you have multiple switches with multiple flows such as from a family using your home network whilst you are using to stream audio…

An alternate method that is less robust and effective, but can provide some benefit is to use an aggregated Ethernet (etherchannel) link between the switches.

I have found with the newer streamers when using UPnP this has less of an impact, no doubt to the revised network and media spooling architecture. This is some of the learning Naim have introduced with their newer advanced streaming architecture with respect to SQ

So in short the buffering on the streamer is irrelevant to the benefits gained on the legacy streamers, it is the processing noise profile created by processing each frame as it arrives.
Similar sonic differences can be heard when comparing different UPnP media servers… down on the wire you see differences in interframe timing consistency which has an effect in certain circumstances on the resultant SQ from the streamer.

When I hear differences in streaming SQ I like to analyze why… and on the whole between true network data decoupling and data framing which is hardly discussed on this forum as it is technically involved, and analogue RF coupled noise through patch leads which is discussed ad nauseam … I feel most bases covered.

My observation is I wonder how many people with their 2960 switches are missing the true potential such devices can bring with SQ on home networks, but to do so I admit, one needs some IT engineering competency so as to appropriately programme and configure the switches, it’s certainly not plug and play… you can’t just throw money at it unless you hire a network consultant…and they cost rather more than electricians on the whole…
However with mains electricity some indeed hire electricians to create dedicated radials with right gauge wire etc etc to tweak the max SQ, but the more crucial data network, most seem to throw many things together DIY style without any real understanding of what is happening and why… yet go to extraordinary lengths to tweak the noise profiles caused by Ethernet patch leads etc… funny old game…

[BertBird]

I assume Peder will also tell us in a next post that’s essential in the sound quality. And the more IKEA pieces you have the better the sound…

[JimDog]

I have only one input to and one output from my Cisco - its a route only from router to 272.

So there are no other data flows - unless the router is sending other data to it as part of general broadcasting or data management processes.

Does this mean I would not be likely to see any benefit from either a second Cisco or from doing more professional programming of my switch as you describe?

This is an important Q at the moment as I’m seriously considering getting a second Cisco to see if it makes a difference.

And I would also be happy to dig into programming my Cisco if I thought that would improve sq.

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

Jim in your setup, if you connect your UPnP media server into the same switch as your streamer, there is nothing much else to do. The predominant influence on your frame timings will be your NAS/media server. The broadcast and multicast and status update messaging will be being interspersed, so in the limit may have a SQ effect… but it will be a relatively low amount of data and frames compared to media…so in practice perhaps not noticeable…

If you daisy chain switches together with just a single flow, then the default queue mechanism will be fine… ie plug and play…
You might want to also experiment with ferrite chokes around your Ethernet leads if you are hearing sonic differences when using two catalysts daisy chained with a single flow … however some boutique cables may not be able to be remedied by chokes. Unscreened 5e or 6 should be fine however.

[frenchrooster]

Jim, your triple doctoral thesis will not be enough to understand how to program the cisco

[JimDog]

For sure.
I reached the outer limit of my IT skills switching mine on and resetting it!

[anon35986639]

Blue or white? Photo?

[Darkebear]

I’ve added a 2960 switch - not programmed - onto my existing in-room 2940 switch (also un-programmed).
I just connected the 2960 onto a free port of the 2940, let it get its act together and find network etc - then swapped my single feed to my Melco-ND555 onto the 2960 and it was obviously and clearly better - no struggling to hear a difference - HiFi box-upgrade better.

I swapped the feed back to 2940 - the sound returned to what I had previous - good but lost the added detail-rendition and tighter bass. Put back to 2960 - all improved again.

This is all sitting in-room next to the Melco and ND555 and connecing it all with 1.5m Ethernet leads of different kinds (I experimented later).

Then I got rid of the 2940 - don’t need it right - right?
It sounded worse - all clean and crisp but lacking smoothness and ‘soul’.
Put the 2940 back where I had it - all improvements back again.

…this is my sequence of trial.

…a lot of other tweaks - put it all on a suitable table with suitable shelve(s) - and it is wonderful!

Now to play with programming it-up:

My observation is I wonder how many people with their 2960 switches are missing the true potential such devices can bring with SQ on home networks

With my Putty and Console cable connected - what are your recommendations to try?

I first wanted to get it all working ‘blank’ as that does seem to be giving me all I ever could dream was possible - I’m very impressed so far.

But always happy to learn and try more things - they have to be on the form: configure - try - remove - try

DB.