Ethernet Switch and Cables Mania

[Peder]

I’ve already experimented with different feet that improved bass.

The main ‘problem’ this switch has is that it is making me forget to optimize it and I’m playing and enjoying music instead - disgraceful stuff.

@Darkebear,…This is interesting,.what feet have you come up with,that is best on your Cisco-switch in your system.?

A very “Attention To Detail”,.knowledgeable friend of mine in Gothenburg,bought some different cheap rubber-feet to test during his Cisco.
He liked these best (see picture below),.under his Cisco,in his Hifi-rack,.in his system.

Changing the feet on a Cisco switch is as bizarre to me as anything Peter Belt suggested.

• But you see above Darkebear,.everyone is not as interested in optimizing their system .

Do you have a picture of which feet you use for your Cisco.?
My friend from Gothenburg,.is one of the best known in Naim,Linn and Lejonklou’s Hifi-products in Sweden.
He has had Linn’s and Naim’s previously heaviest active-system,.nowadays he runs with Lejonklou’s best products.

Here below is a picture of the Hifi-racks that he now uses,and on these he has listened,.that the small rubber feet in the picture above are the best.
These swedish racks are called Harmony,.and cost in the best version (you see in the picture) as a Naim Fraim,they are very good.

He was also the first in Sweden to try to find the best ethernet-cables for soundquality.
And also discovered that the direction of the ehternet-cable was significant for the soundquality,.this was about 12-13 years ago.

As you understand,.he got a lot of criticism on various Swedish forums,and was called crazy etc,etc…
So not much has changed on the forums on these issues on these 12-13years.
And with hindsight,.he had of course right.

He’s like me,.and also you seem to be.
Extreme geeks,.when it comes to “Attention To Detail” in system-optimization.
He and some of the group also designed a Nas,.which for many years was counted as Sweden’s best musical Nas on Lejonklou’s forum.
And also on the Swedish Linn forum Selleri.

Well,.this was some thoughts late at night…
Good Night.

Ps: The only thing I do not like about,with his installation in the picture,.is that he uses Linn Skeet.
In 10 cases of 10,.when I tested and compared so is Naim’s Chips better…on all surfaces.

Skeet is only good when making a tuning of your loudspeakers.
After that,.they should be removed,put at the bottom of a box and be forgotten.

/Peder🙂

[Darkebear]

what feet have you come up with,that is best on your Cisco-switch in your system.?

I’m still experimenting - and I’m also in process of swapping that switch for another that hopefully will be quieter as the SMPS was audibly noisy on the one I have - it gets returned in a day or so.

But I tried three feet of different materials - generally I prefer one to be a soft metal and the other two wood so far. But the four little hard rubber ones you show may be better. I’m just playing with this one now and will do the job properly when I get my final 2960 box.

DB.

[BertBird]

My Vodka is smaller and it’s definitely not 1.5 m

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

No Peder, Mike_S YES is totally correct, and is relaying a comment I have heard from Naim themselves… in particular in the new streamers there is the use of LVDS to couple the Ethernet/network elements with other parts of the streamer. The effect one is describing in much of this thread however is almost certainly noise coupling which is likely with any cable such as mains, automation or interconnect.
I note Darkebear’s comments about one particular boutique cable varies its affect on whether it touches anything or not… this is nothing to do with Ethernet but noise coupling… and as such there are many ways of achieving this, and yes one way is shaping the noise using the Ethernet lead and connected load.

However we could almost certainly be having a similar conversation around the automation lead quality and routing… I certainly notice that does have an effect, as I have largely decoupled my Ethernet… I guess in the audiophile world there are less variables for a Naim automation cable. The mains lead and power block is another area to equally focus on as well as interconnects.

I did share the engineering guide on EMC design which goes into this technically if you are interested… but almost certainly, and in my experience, this is nothing or very little to do with Ethernet per se.

Areas that would be truly Ethernet related include IGMP snooping, separate routable Audio subnets, and use of different media servers and audio proxy servers and the effect of these in my experience is much reduced with the new streamers, that to me supports Mike_S and Naim’s claims.

[Stephen_Tate]

Yes but from what I can gather Mike_S has not heard these changes for himself, so how can one state a claim without actually experiencing the effect themselves? No offence Mike, just stating the obvious. How is it then that I have experienced ‘for myself’ that Audioquest Cinnamon Ethernet cables were an upgrade over my supplied patch cat5 (which came with my QNAP) and the Vodka is yet another upgrade over my Cinnamons? This is with a new generation Naim streamer. I put this to Naim themselves as well. I have experienced this for myself and not what someone else has told me. I could not give a fig about the science or any paper, just my ears.

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

He can state what Naim have said, at least to some of us, as a design goal specifically from an Ethernet perspective that the new streamers have a greater amount of Ethernet decoupling than the legacy streamers … it’s not his personal claim, but a fact. However perhaps Mike can’t conform he has personally heard this design principle put into practice perhaps… but others can as per my post… and indeed if you read through the forum you will find many postings that correlate with what I posted, especially with the use of media servers and media proxies.
However the Ethernet aspect is I suggest moot, as this thread is about largely noise coupling and noise shaping rather than Ethernet decoupling…

And those several years ago when I introduced the catalyst 2960, to the audio community, to which there was almost universal scorn, that was all about listening and noise shaping… I was addressing an issue of noise interfering from my Netgear switch affecting the noise floor of my NAT05 stereo decoder… that was long before this niche area of audiophile network devices appeared… but I seemed to remember predicting that it would at the time as many people are more likely influenced by expensive packaged items rather than trusting their own ears with true cause and effect… I think at the time the area that everyone was getting hot and bothered about was CD rippers… and many of the similar arguments we see here, surfaced there.
However people tried it, more was discussed on the threads here and elsewhere and I was contacted by a few trade journalists over it, and slowly the views of acceptability within the audiophile community started to changed. The good thing it was cheap for people to try and do… as many of the devices could be sourced used… People were starting to trust their ears again…without needing to justify an audiophile priced item.

Back on topic to address just about everything mentioned in this thread, it can be largely achieved for a fraction of the cost that some pay using rather ordinary non audiophile packaged devices…

I say trust your ears, not the marketing or the purchase justifications.

It’s funny how history repeats… let’s book mark and revisit in 4 years…I predict we will have moved to fibre SFPs… and a lot of what is in this thread will be redundant.

[Stephen_Tate]

I say trust your ears, not the marketing…

On that same token I think i’ll purchase some BJ Ethernet cables for myself. What are the ones to go for?

[raym55]

I say trust your ears, not the marketing

And, in a lot of cases, technical specifications.

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

I don’t know, Mike_B of this parish seems to be the local advisory on those.
If it was me I suggest purchase a Cat 5e and a Cat 6 … perhaps shielded and try.

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

Yes good point… technical specifications won’t tell you how a device will necessarily perform in your system… but they will tell you what it won’t do,

[frenchrooster]

it’s probably the thread that divides us the most on the forum. Some years ago it was the naca 5, people were saying that naca 5 is all you need, no need to buy fancy speakers cables. With the superlumina, people changed their mind.
One day Naim will produce a fancy ethernet cable, and this division will be closed.

[Stephen_Tate]

Ok thanks Simon.

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

Possibly, I have suggested Naim going to SFP modules so one can use fibre or twisted pair as the Ethernet cable to suit. Hopefully I have the chance of meeting some of the Naim designers shortly.

Using direct fibre, most of this noise shaping as discussed in this thread goes away… but there is a slight audio vulnerability to fibre so scope for audiophilitus… I wonder if I should dare mention it… as almost certainly as night follows day once it gets out there, there will be outrageously priced audiophile fibres.

[frenchrooster]

SFP or something like superlumina ethernet…

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

?? Don’t understand… if you use SFP modules you could use fibre or twisted pair Ethernet to suit… are you suggesting there could be a superlumina twisted pair lead that you plug in your SFP transceiver? Possibly…

[frenchrooster]

no Simon, i mean that Naim could develop SFP as you said or just produce a fancy ethernet cable ( no SFP in that case).

[Stephen_Tate]

people were saying that naca 5 is all you need, no need to buy fancy speakers cables

I’ll drink to that!

[frenchrooster]

what does it mean?

[Peder]

Good morning,.it is such a speed on this thread so you do not have time to drink your morning-coffee .

And should we,.who do not have English as their mother-tongue have time to answer,well then we have to be free from work😉.

/Peder🙂

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

Oh I see… actually SFP can be fibre or twisted pair … it stands for Small Form-factor Pluggable… and it is a stabdardized network transceiver port to allow farious physical configuration of twisted pair (Cat type Ethernet leads) and fibre to be connected to the port via a specific transceiver.