i completely agree. Apart Simon, i don’t know really if ndx2 transport is better vs ndx. I am just wondering, but something tells me to think that ndx2 transport is better, because the dac is the same…A lot found the ndx2 better vs ndx ( as standalone dac/ streamer).
i hope too, would not like to be tempted…
The hope dies last…
Simon was seated two chairs down from me at Naim last year when Steve Sells, the designer, talked us through the schematic for the new streamers. I specifically asked Steve whether there was any benefit to using an NDX2 as a transport over the NDX, and his response was not really, as the elements in the streamer before the digital out were essentially the same,
A couple of weeks ago I asked the same question of another senior Naim employee and his authorative response was identical.
I tried an ND5 XS2 subsequently as a transport (I was interested in the new functionality), and found it identical in sound.
So basically, to repeat Dave, Simon’s ears are Simon’s ears.
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There’s no point in doing so.
How a cable behaves in one system is no guide at all as to how it will behave in a different one.
Recent experience with upgrading the switch has shown it impacts what I make of the cables, so it probably makes sense to find out first if any more can be gained with the switch before considering any very expensive cables.
Since the switch drives the digital waveform into the cable you would hope, from a HiFi point of view, that it just does what is needed to convey the data and meet relevant standards without inserting onto the data flow extra noise or other interactions that are not part of the design spec just to meet commercial specification, but may get through to the Streamer/DAC stage.
Ideally you want a perfectly matched transmission line created by the Ethernet cables between the boxes so that the waveform is sent, received and that is it - but I suspect it is far from perfect and even a small miss-match, which will probably be frequency dependent to an extent will be pumping the cable with noise from the relatively high digital voltages used to transmit the data.
So I’d like low inherent added noise and transmission line matching at all relevant frequencies as a design aim for a HiFi switch - then you can try the different cables to see what works with that. But there is probably a lot more to it after that.
DB.
so i wonder now on what have improved for ndx2 vs ndx? the dac being the same, is it the implementation in the transport, in the dac, or something else?
The mechanism that transfers the digital signal over to the analogue side is far quieter, and they worked a lot on the filters prior to the DAC itself. I have no doubt the NDX2 is a big step up, taken as a whole unit.
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Last time I visited Naim HQ they were using Cat-ordinary cable
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Hi Xanthe
That is overstating it IMO.
I think it’s impossible to predict with certainty how a cable will perform in a different system - yes.
Because even if say 2 people have identical boxes and other wires, their electrical environment may be radically different and thus the effect of adding that same cable may be radically different.
But it’s not ‘no guide at all’.
Some aspects of how a cable will do its noise shaping are to do with the cable design - so while the effects are not utterly predictable they are also not utterly random.
Naim have also been spotted by Forum users using Cat-ordinary cable at demonstration events, but also IIRC Chord mid-level quite expensive ethernet cables too (but not Chord Music that I’ve heard of).
I’d be astonished to see them using Music, or any chord cable, as it would effectively be a recommendation of a competitor’s product. These cables are for the geekiest of the geeky and I bet 95% of people with Naim streamers just use any old wire.
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As they don’t sell Ethernet cables and as I am listening always to demos of distributors it could be, but I will watch going forward…
What, not even Blue Jeans ones Mike? That does surprise me. Where did all this Blue Jeans mania come from?
Alan and the Melco chaps are pretty sensible so i’m sure this will be good (and you can turn off the link activity lights and even upgrade the PSU so it ticks the enthusiast boxes). Whether it’s better than a 2960 though ?
I predict ‘Audiophile’ modems and Russ Andrews selling Kimber cabled RJ11 leads next…
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I’ve some BJCs for my system coming so will able to hear for myself if it was worth the punt or not. However, if it doesn’t work out then at least I’ll have an idea, if anything, I might even pop to to the dealer for another round of Vodka, at this stage I’m trying to keep an open mind,.
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Its not mania, & its not new either, its just happened to get onto this thread & peeps have posted about it, they tried something new & reported on the results quite sensibly IMO.
That said some of the other contents of this thread do need to get checked out.
Back to BJC, its been around on the forums for a long time, I ordered & installed some for a friend a few years ago, I needed to change my own cables, I considered BJC but picked MeiCord for various reasons. I’ve seen BJC talked about on Linn & Lejonklou forums for some time & they are now one of the forum favourites, also worth noting both those forums don’t go nuts over boutique cables
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Ah ok, thanks for your insight Mike. I’m fairly new to it all and it’s only very recently that I’ve noticed folks mentioning it. I have to admit that I’m fairly happy with my AQ cables but curiosity is getting the better of me, so why not as it were. I can always use the cables for other things like gaming PCs and things anyway, so it’s no loss to me in trying network related things out from time to time.
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Both dealers I frequent here in the states are using regular data cables though one has his cables made here locally. No boutique data cables to be seen in their demo rooms.
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Those Melco boys and girls are naughty…we could be tied up here forever on this thread. I leave with the thought an original Cisco 8 port switch was never cheap in its day?
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