Do you really believe the only point of sport is to win and anyone who doesn’t win is a ‘loser’? American macho culture is terrified of being shamed as a ‘loser’ and you cannot just separate that attitude from Armstrong’s cheating with drugs. Closer to home, there has been the revelation of the abusive culture in gymnastics, all in the service of winning medals. An obsession with winning at any cost is extremely destructive for the individuals involved and for the reputation of the sport.
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You’ve missed my point I think. Klopp and Pep stand for a certain type of football, it was clear that they had an idea and what that idea was, that surely helped them keep their job, or at least the fans support. Despite not winning.
Southgate should not be mentioned in the same sentence as those two. Again, most of the criticism of him above is not the fact that he didn’t win it.
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I think your general point is fair, Mike, but let’s remember that GS has had eight years. I think the FA have shown plenty of patience and given him time to put his stamp onto the England team. But, while I think GS can leave with honour, I for one don’t like what that ‘Southgate stamp’ looks like.
Potter currently favourite for job. Which could be a bit strange. Or make sense !
Whilst he undoubtedly made Brighton an excellent team, our best results were against the better teams that came onto us.
When we played teams who were in a relegation scrap, and very much playing in the ‘low block’ way to grab a point away from home, we often became a bit toothless. So could see a lot of games playing out in a similar mode to the Euro group stage (which was successful, but not pretty).
So in some ways a strange favourite, as not sure we’ll be ‘buccaneering’ . But also makes sense as could be a similar format of play which has now taken us ‘almost’ to the summit on two occasions.
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Indeed. Should be Steven Gerrard really
If you lot would take Steve Clarke off our hands, we’d be most grateful 
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Isn’t that the definition of a loser?
Obviously we don’t get to see the objectives placed on the England manager, but surely it must be to win. If any lesser goal is set, e.g. to reach the semi-finals or quarter-finals, we are setting ourselves up for failure. Maybe that’s where we are now.
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If FA have any ambition they should go all out for Jurgen Klopp.
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My post was more generic than considering the England football team, and I did put ‘loser’ in scare quotes for a reason. I was trying to make the point that success in sports is a lot more complicated than the ‘win at any costs’ mentality. Would you say that someone who wins an Olympic silver medal can simply and crudely be categorised as merely a ‘loser’?
In business circles, you’d target Klopp with Carsley in the set-up as a potential successor – but that’s not how football appears to work, with a complete regime change each time(?).
Please explain why a man who has just resigned from a high profile, high pressure well paid job with the explicit intent of taking at least a year off is even in the frame? It’s a magnificent example of people taking bookies as a source of fact and journalism rather than engaging with brutal reality and common sense. Who, in his position, and given his very clear reasoning for leaving the Liverpool job, could be deluded enough to believe he would be insane enough to look at the England job and think “Yeah, that. Definitely that.” That’s before you look at his poor record in cup competitions. Given the resources he is, by all the definitions offered here, a serial failure. Very good at coming narrowly 2nd so there is that I suppose.
Poor bloke will be forced to issue a statement denying interest just to generate some click bait and put it to rest when rest is essentially what he craves. Next thing you know you’ll have all the entitled England fans and media pundits queueing up to accuse the FA of not having tried hard enough or some such guff.
Happy to eat my hat if I’m wrong but really? Come on. Anyone mentioning him or Pep has failed to understand the most basic things about what drives both managers.
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It’s going to be Eddie Howe. Tina.
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Well now you’ve spoken (at length) on the subject Mike the world will obviously spin in your direction.
I’m sure taking the LA angle one could say that a silver medalist is more than just a loser; they are instead first loser. But ask any silver medalist if their objective was to finish second. Maybe those further down the rankings might be pleased to make it into a final or to improve on their PB, but I bet any silver medalist was targeting gold.
I wonder why some of the England players took off their runners up medals (for which they were criticised). That’s undoubtedly because they were disappointed to lose.
I have run, not raced, several marathons. My objective was not to win, but to finish in under three hours. That’s the difference between amateur and professional objectives.
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I’m definitely not part of their lot.
I’m part of the world where Craig Bellamy is our new manager and that, remarkably, is cause for optimism. Plenty of golf club jokes to follow but I suspect Bale won’t chance a round with him.
Not sure this stands up to scrutiny. Loads of examples of unexpected medals at all levels of all sorts of sport. Tennis, cycling and skiing spring to mind off the top of my head. In my own family my cousins daughter targeted the Olympic sailing events but life took over. When she was able to resume she had no medal aspirations whatsoever and no ranking but came home from international events with multiple medals. She had targeted no more than completion, enjoyment and improvement.
I wholly understand footballers taking medals off when they’ve lost but you rarely see that in non team sports.
England’s professional aim for this tournament was declared as to win it. They fell short by a sliver. The subsequent stuff is hysterical for neutrals. Everything from how dreadful they were to micro analysis of the issues. Zero acceptance that sometimes “s&@% happens” and that luck plays a huge part.
Genuinely interesting to read the wiki stuff on England managers and how many were literally undone by things beyond their control but how the public and media often turned on them anyway. Easy to forget how many tournaments England lost key players either before or during. Easy to forget that Ramsey - this will sound familiar - was destroyed by a perceived refusal to make substitutions. Southgate’s is a story as old as time and the idea that if you keep doing the same thing but expect a different outcome then you are naive was never truer than now.
Equally interesting to me that Bellingham remains untouchable but the criticism is that Kane was the problem. Some great images of Bellingham at the end. Sat alone immediately. Took his medal off almost straight away. Didn’t comfort anyone or accept condolences from Spanish or his own players. Token effort as shaking maybe 4 players hands when dragged up by a member of the coaching team and was the last player to come and applaud the fans. Sulks when subbed and it’s now emerging he’s had several training spats with team mates and despite his kind recent words has laid into the management team too. When Birmingham went down he was rumoured to have told his brother off for not going off the pitch immediately. Something fundamentally amiss there.
Strongly recommend the Wilson analysis recently published in The Graun. Nails where the entitlement has come from and skewers just how hard a job he’s left his successor.
I know, but ya sure hang out a lot with em 
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People seem to blame Southgate for the players performance but I can remember watching George Best in a modest Ireland team looking world class against a very good England team. I think several of our players need to look in the mirror.
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Bellingham has done himself no favours in that tournament @mikehughescq He gave a very sulky interview after the last game in the group stages where he came across as a pure individual, who, coincidentally, was playing as part of a team.
The following interview, by Mainoo, was a total contrast. He came across as a lovely young lad, living the dream.
Bellingham is clearly a great player. Won La Liga, and the Champions League at the age of 20. However, he needs to tone it back a bit. He’s a smartarse egotist, reminiscent of a young Ronaldo.
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