First turntable

It can, at 3 times the price. You add to the P8 something like the Aura phono and Lyra Kleos cartridge, and then, bye bye the Akurate. :grin:

It’s a view! I’d expect my LP12 (Karousel, Core, Ekos, L4, into Superline) to please e more than the nearest I can get with a p10, but I can understand people who compare it to Vertere or a Rega and dislike the LP12, especially if they usually prefer CD to LP.

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I don’t dislike the Lp12 at all. But from my point of view you can have better or similar for less money today. For 16k, if you run the P10 with a Lyra Etna and Superline/ Supercap for instance, the Klimax lp12 would have a hard time. IMO. ( I compared some years ago an Rp10/ Lyra Kleos/ Rega Aura vs Klimax Lp12 ( non karoussel at that time). Similar level for both to my ears. But consequent price difference).

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I guess it comes down to preference in presentation. I like my P8/Apheta3 and my LP12 Akurate/Krystal just the same, but in terms of value for money I think the Rega, at about 1/3 of the price of the Linn, is a clear winner.

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Have to disagree, it looks really boring but I’ve had one since the early 90’s so it must have some merits - just saying if I had to start from scratch for a moderately high-end turntable, I’d be seriously looking around unless cost was no object. The beauty with Linn of course is continuous costly, usually worthwhile, upgrades but ultimately the servicability from many dealers which more esoteric brands might lack.

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Well it is a naim forum :crazy_face:

It doesn’t take much in the analog world to match the NDX2/XPSDR. I’d also add Vertere and Roksan to the List of turntables to audition as well.

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Also, the Karousel bearing has completely transformed the LP12. If you have only heard the cirkus or earlier bearing it’s not even close.

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100% agree nicnaim

Massive upgrade and in the big picture of things relatively inexpensive

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I had an SME 20/2 for more than 15 years. I needed no service at all from a dealer. Just had to replace the rubber tower bands and drop some oil in the motor.
Most high end turntables don’t need service. Apart changing the belt for belt drive. The lp12 is more an exception.

I have an Rega P8/Apheta 3 cart, aria phono and that’s comparable with my ND52XS. So if you can go Rega P10 or Linn equiv that should compare to your NDX2. Money wise they’re the same. P8/A3 £2,400 same as ND52XS, P10/A3 same as NDX2 ish…

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I’m taking a different tack …
My first TT was a Pioneer, quickly replaced by a Thorens that was replaced by an LP12 then by a Roksan Xeroxes. All this happened over a 12 year period. Jump 30 years and along comes another LP12, but only because the Roksan has a warped arm board.

My own personal experience of Linn is that you need to answer a lot of questions before going anywhere near a hifi dealer, most of them relating to how the Linn reacts to its environment.

My first hifi turntable was a Garrard AP75 / Goldring cartridge with a Sinclair Stereo 60 amp built into the plinth. I next moved on to a Garrard 401 with an SME 3009 (2 versions) and various Shure cartridges, ending with an M95ED. The Garrard had tremendous attack and a really good sound but the rumble was a real problem for me, especially as I had IMF TLS50 transmission line speakers.

Friends advised me to get a Linn Sondek, which I did. Used it with Linn arms, finally upgrading to Linn Ittok and Denon DL103 cartridge. Sure enough the rumble was gone, but the Linn was a nightmare to use. Wobbly suspension meant I could no longer hand position the stylus. Footfall meant that everybody had to tiptoe around in case the arm shot across the record. Final insult was when I moved into a house next to a railway line and the whole house shook twice a day when a heavy goods train went past. The whole hifi system stayed in its boxes for 8 years until I moved again.

When I moved to a solid-stone house, I put the Linn on a wall bracket which got rid of the footfall problem but not the need to use the cueing lever instead of hand-positioning.

So, what are the questions you need to ask? How stable is your floor? How stable is your wall? If thinking of wall-mounting, is the wall strong enough to hold the turntable support? This is not such a stupid question as it appears as one of the friends who recommended a Linn deck bought an expensive wall-mounted record storage unit and put his Linn on it. I had the personal misfortune to be the only one in the room when the whole thing fell off onto the floor. “It wisnae me!” was all I could say. He was very philosophical about it and took the whole thing to Russ Andrews to repair the broken plinth and check the Linn. It only added to my nervousness of the Linn. If someone walks anywhere near your turntable does this affect the turntable support? Is there a busy road or railway near your house? Are you the nervous type (see above)?

If you are not sure, my suggestion would be to try something else.

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I would also recommend the Rega P8 but don’t forget the phono pre which is very important to achieve the sound you want. I guess to get a similar sound a Superline would be a match.

I would spend less on cartridge and more on the phono pre.

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Neither will sound “equivalent” to the NDX2, vinyl never sounds like digital but each can sound equally enjoyable in their own way. Where are you based? A trip to Cymbiosis and you can hear a Rega vs Linn but also a Vertere DG and you’ll get a real flavour for what vinyl can do. Beyond those consider Michell, Avid, Clearaudio amongst others.

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Suspended decks generally like wall shelves better than racks (however flash) on a bouncy floor. Decent lightweight shelves are very cheap by comparison with the sort of deck being discussed here. You may get more location choice with a non-suspended deck like a P8/ P10, but the dedicated Rega shelf is probably best here too.

I worried about a wall shelf falling down, because my LP12 sits on a chunk of granite in the old £100 Targett wall shelf. However, I have had no trouble - as I understand it, most disasters involve a non-external wall that won’t hold bolts securely. If you can put a kitchen cabinet full of plates or a microwave oven on a wall, it can probably hold an LP12.

Cueing by finger or lever? Fair enough. I try to use the lever always but sometimes fail.

Like differences in servicing (much rarer than people seem to think for the LP12, but just doesn’t exist for a Rega), none of this makes an LP12 better (or better value) than a Rega. However, the issues are usually easy to address or no bother in the real world, and I wouldn’t easily give up my LP12.

As so many here have said, the LP12 is a great option, but so are many others, including the Regas and Verteres (and Avids and Clearauadios and all the others mentioned above).

There are enough options and enough differences that at least one trip to listen at dealers will be a very good idea before spending that sort of money. See what your ears think!

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I can see the logic, her. My LP12 has, for many years now, been on its own (Sound Factory Tripod) stand, on a solid floor.

That makes sense. Your floor is doubtless a lot more solid than mine. If I had a good concrete floor, I might well have avoided wall shelves too.

For both suspended and unsuspended, a simple shelf or (if your floor is up to it) the top shelf of a really good stand or the traditional ‘light and rigid’ table from Ikea will all work pretty well IMHO. They can be improved, but it’s a fair amount of effort for a modest gain and risks (as I think @anon4489532 pointed out some time ago) making your hifi look silly.

One thing that I think we can say with high confidence is that there are more locations where (say) an LP12 really won’t be at its best than there are locations that won’t work for (say) a P10.

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One of the challenges with a turntable shelf is that the top and bottom fixings can be very close together, with the shelf projecting quite a way from the wall. This means there is much more likelihood of the top fixings being pulled out than you’d get with a kitchen cupboard, which has a much larger contact area.

When I had a Linn, its best performance came from the top shelf of a Fraim on our concrete floor. With the Rega, it sounds quite a bit better on its dedicated and very light Rega wall bracket, compared to being on top of an Isoblue stack.

That’s a fair point on contact patch, though the likely total weights are very different too and the COG on the wall shelf is steady and only 10 inches from the wall.

Given your floor, it seems very reasonable for you to have put an LP12 on top of the Fraim. Did you ever try the Rega in the same place (before Isoblue) or try the LP12 on the Rega wall bracket?

FWIW, improving a simple wall bracket for my LP12 took a lot of faff - the arrangement I have scored best, but second-best was an un-fiddled-with Targett stand and its MDF shelf. Given the design, I suspect that improving on Rega’s shelf for your P10 would probably be impossible.

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