The buck stops with our owners but they’re definitely not running the show. Where the buck stops and who does the work. Two very different things.
Your £60m is peanuts compared to say the £279m of somewhere like QPR. Again, note that the biggest figures relate to those clubs who reached towards the sun but got too close. It’s very easy to ignore the cautionary tales and assume you’ll be different. Just like my club, you will not.
There is general recognition within the game that Delia and hubby do not have the finance for the EPL; never did and never will but they have been fantastic custodians, which is why your “black hole” is peanuts compared to most of the rest of the teams in your division.
I suggest you do some further reading on Attanasio as the changes you desire are not going to happen. That’s not his direction of travel at all.
Whilst his personal fortune runs at 700m dollars the reality is that he’s invested next to none of that in sport. He fronted a consortium which bought the Brewers and is the majority shareholder amongst 17 by a slim amount. He’s believed to have invested in less than 20% of the original purchase price. As an owner he changes very little but prefers home grown development to big money purchases and will not break salary structure.
At Norwich he was never going to plug the so-called “black hole” and now he’s got an absolute majority you won’t see him rush to take over as the current majority shareholders wanted someone who who would stick to their financial model and take the time to learn the game. He’s happy to comply with both. There is little chance the 3 years will be accelerated unless Delia and hubby chose to go. When he does take over nothing will change bar quiet investment in attracting and developing home grown talent; attracting funding from elsewhere for some ground redevelopment and exploring other revenue streams. In other words you’re going to become a slightly bigger selling club.
Because others have accrued a bigger black hole than ours doesn’t indicate that we have been well run. Delia has not invested in the club. Michael Foulger, the other main share holder provided substantial loans on several occasions when the club was in financial trouble.
I don’t for one minute expect Attanasio to wave a cheque book in the way others have done.
He will, I expect, provide stability and a pathway to producing a better product that I hope will end our current decline.
The interesting thing about the takeover, if Delia ever lets go of her social club, is the techniques and systems gained from baseball that he intends to apply at Norwich.
Attanasio has been a big success at the Brewers through his systematic, cautious, fan based approach and I desperately hope he’ll prove to be an ideal fit for Norwich.
Football needs an alternative to the current state takeovers.
I absolutely agree that the relatively small size of your debt doesn’t mean you are well run but the consensus within football is that you absolutely are. You may not agree with that consensus but that is the way the land lies and you’ve never provided anything concrete about it being poorly run beyond you not liking the decisions or the outcomes.
It’s also worth remembering that more personal investment from an individual is the strongest indication of a poorly run club rather than a sustainable one. Money put in by owners, and we’ve discussed this before, is not investment. It’s loans and debt and it’s a massive red flag. Scroll back up, read the list of clubs then maybe pick a couple to read about (literally any of them will do). The common pattern is that the fans bought into the dream of PL football and expected/didn’t complain when owners put their personal money in to achieve that. All failed. All ultimately crashed. All the owners either wanted their money back before they got out and were prepared to kill their clubs to do so. In many cases it turned out the owners never had the money but had leveraged debt against the assets of the club itself. You seem to be begging for this to happen to Norwich.
My club currently a fine example of that. We have gone from being pared down and profitable under fan ownership to bloated; paying salaries we cannot afford regardless of a huge uptick in income and with debt that is clearly unsustainable without further promotions and a much bigger ground. Lovely that the owners are throwing money about but it’s astonishing how quickly most of our fans have forgotten what that means in practice. Great that we won a title and finally got out of the National League but nothing comes without cost.
Again, I’d recommend reading up in more depth on your majority shareholder. There is a consensus the Brewers are better for the purchase and generally more competitive but equally that has grown expectation and frustration that they absolutely will not buy big; will not break the wage structure etc. The growing sense is that he’s made a shrewd investment; has grown the value of the club and will eventually sell on at huge profit without them ever having done anything bar generally appear better run and more competitive.
I would expect at Norwich you’ll see yourselves repeatedly fighting at the top end of the Championship with attractive young homegrown teams but regular sales of a couple each season. Should you make the EPL he won’t budge on finance or structure and you’ll bounce straight back down. By all means provide me with solid evidence to the contrary.
The information regarding shareholder investment is gleaned from the annual accounts and AGM. This shows investment and loans made by the directors which is why Foulger is mentioned.
By her own admission the club has come very close on several occasions to going into administration.
The urgently needed modernisation of the training facilities was funded by fans donating through a bond.
Apart from Foulger and the fans the only other finance has been from the usual sources that apply to all championship clubs.
What makes Norwich unique is the parachute payments and premiership payments which were substantial.
However, because we have been lumbered with, by her own admission, a poor millionaire we have gambled that money on finding the next Maddison rather than experienced players capable of mounting a decent challenge in the premiership.
For years we were told by Delia that nobody was interested in buying the club. At this years AGM the finance director admitted several viable offers have been presented to the board for consideration.
Fans were rightly outraged at this news and assume the only reason we have Attanasio is because he gave Delia the option of clinging on to ownership for as long as possible.
We hope he’ll be a better option than Delia as things are only going downhill under her ownership.
When looking at her reign you have to compare the club to the likes of Brighton and Brentford who were both leagues below us when she bought the club. In that regard she compares badly.
I guess that shows once again that fans prefer conspiracy rather than other explanations. My club is full of nonsense like that. My understanding was that around 80% of Championship clubs have flirted with administration in the last three years so nothing unique there. Ditto fans funding stuff. That’s happening at all levels regardless of ownership model.
I think we’ve had this discussion before re: experienced players and the EPL. I have no idea why you or indeed anyone might think this would somehow be a more financially viable plan. The evidence base for the approach is nil. When it’s been tried, it has failed. Repeatedly. There are no guarantees of success so essentially you’re doing what many fans do and “projecting”.
“We have this. I don’t like this. I don’t like where we are. Therefore I don’t like the people who do this and put us here. Thus, these other things must be the better way.” It is entirely speculative and exactly the sort of gamble all those clubs listed above took.
I love that your fans assume that viable offers presented to the board means presented only to the majority shareholders and that rejection confirms your prejudices/assumptions about your two previous majority shareholders.
I would suggest your fans focus on the other people on your board. I doubt you’ll find they rejected viable bids because the two people on the top people told them to or were out-voted. It simply doesn’t work like that. There are very clear laws and financial rules about such things and if you decide to disregard those when a serious offer of investment is made then you are inviting big trouble.
Interesting discussion but I fear your perspective as a fan is skewed and what you want to play out and what will play out are miles apart. I don’t mean that as an insult. All fans have uniquely skewed views of the goings on at their clubs. I know from personal experience with my own club just how distanced from reality they can be. I was way off with some of my assumptions about the people and way forward at my club several times until I found myself inside the tent looking out. Very little is as fans think it is.
My view is not purely as a fan but from a business perspective.
You have previously mentioned several clubs who have done crazy things beyond their financial scope and consequently suffered.
Norwich is an exception as it’s never gone mad with spending.
The gripe the fans have is the fact that Delia has clung on to ownership of a club she cannot afford to own but arrogantly stated that she is the only safe pair of hands that will ensure it’s survival.
If you read her appalling Times interview you’ll see she has little time for the premier league and foreign money.
The £60 million deficit is beyond her means regarding servicing the debt payments hence the (enforced) conversation with Attanasio.
The parachute payments will soon stop and if there is no change of owner the club will be doomed.
Apologies for late response. 7:15pm eye hospital appointment with pupil dilation so double ish vision until now.
With regards to the above comment you need to maybe read up about those clubs. In many cases nothing “crazy” took place besides the belief they were one division away from the EPL and thus could achieve that and remain sustainable.
At the peak of the evil ownership which brought us to our knees our shirt sponsors were as follows.
Not a brilliant performance from Pompey today, but then we do have several injuries and suspensions. Still, a win is a win, and I’m very, very happy that we go into the international break six points clear of third place.
Another strange game at Portman Road - just the 6 goals. Town could have been 5 up at half-time - Preston playing hoofball with a back 5 and 3 covering midfielders offered nothing.
They made 3 subs start of the 2nd half - matched our 4-2-3-1, started playing good football and were well on top for 25 mins. Earlier than usual mass subs and fresh legs wrestled the game back and Town finished comfortably.
After yet another dire performance today you’ll have no problem at Carrow Road.
I’m starting to find it difficult to work up enough enthusiasm to go and watch.
The thing with supporting Pompey is that everything looks good and then it all goes horribly wrong. Every year we hope it will be different, but it never is. Hopefully, with JM and the team they’ve put together, this year will be different. As you say, a win is a win.
Yes, Nigel, that’s certainly been true for a long time. I’m trying hard not to get carried away but a couple of aspects of the side under JM give me cause for optimism. First, the depth of the squad is deeper than it has been for years. Second, through the long unbeaten run the side have come back from behind several times to get a result. That very rarely happened under the Cowleys and the back-end of Jackett’s tenure. Typically, we would open a game by playing well but fail to score and the opposition would score (usually through a defensive mistake) and you could immediately see the players’ belief drain away and we’d lose. Now the players seem to have grit and confidence that they will be able to recover and get a result. This season’s form in particular (lots of draws at the fag-end of last season) has seen us win from losing positions several times. Belief and confidence are hugely important, and the current side are showing that even when replacements come in for suspended or injured players, suggesting that the ‘belief’ goes deep. Of course, we’re barely a quarter of the way through the season so lots of opportunity for disappointment over the rest of the season but I’m beginning to feel some tentative optimism.
Much the better side. Much better atmosphere, Wednesday was flat. Much wasteful finishing & final ball. Much improved since the transfer window closed. Special mention for Archie playing out of position & playing well. A great talent.
Woeful 1-1 with Rotherham Utd for Saints this afternoon at St Mary’s.
@mikehughescq commented back in (I think) July, Saints are one duff appointment away from relegation. It’s possible that I’m catastrophising but I’m wondering if that appointment could be Russell Martin. Basically, I think our players are better than this.
Rotherham are an interesting one for me. Well run club who keep pinging between the Championship and League One. Despite their position they strike me as being a couple of players off being a good team. They’ve only been thrashed in the EFL Cup, which they clearly didn’t care about and, bar one 3-0 loss in the league, they’ve generally been the victim of fine margins. Come the end of the season that may not be a bad result regardless of the performance.
What on earth are the Birmingham owners doing is sacking Eustace when they are sixth in the Championship? And rumoured to be about to appoint Rooney. What has he achieved in management? Some of these foreign owners don’t seem to have a clue about what’s needed to achieve success in English football.
