The degree the CD transport matters, error recovery aside, does depend on what you are connecting the output to.
If using SPDIF the clock phase stability of the CD transport output framing should improve the better the CD transport source is. Phase modulation distortion can couple into some DACs and cause the resultant audio to sound off. Some designs of DACs go to significant effort to re quantize the framing clock and decouple the SPDIF framing stream in an electrically and EM field partitioned part of the design. The better this is done, especially the phase noise decoupling, the least important the CD transport becomes.
Obviously prevention is better than cure, but in the limit you can largely negate these aspectsā¦
other considerations are to ensure the SPDIF output is galvanically isolatedā¦ most half decent transports will do this. Also to minimize common mode noise, so ideally the CD transport source is earthed, and has a descent power supply whether it be switched mode or linear.
In my system now, I use a Chord Electronics DAVE DAC, fed by an NDX2 acting as a streaming transport source and external SPDIF requantizer, decoupler and SPDIF framing regeneratorā¦ and my digital SPDIF sources all sound great, whether they are from gaming consoles, streaming boxes, DAT or CD. Though some devices like some gaming consoles will resample CD to 48kHz which is not that good from a hifi perspective.
So now the quality and proprietary of the digital transport source is largely irrelevant ā¦ to my mind that is how it should be as a recorded music lover.
Yes new price the moon is almost Ā£3k on the UK, but you can find them just below Ā£2K if you look around.
I have found if you have a great dac, with an equivalent great streaming source then to equal the quality from a CD transport takes some doing, and just about all fail to do it.
Plus even when you do finally find the CD transport that can do the business the difference is small to make the huge out lay, plus going forward problems you will get not really worth it.
May I ask you why? Keep in mind Iām only considering local streaming from NAS or PC, not online streaming with Qobuz, Tidal, etc. Online streaming doesnāt sound as good to my ears.
I kind of ignored that comment - it looked like a trolling attempt. Clearly designed to be contentious without any substance or any justification explaining the posterās rather curious personal view point.
Agreed, especially for newbies to the world of HiFi like myself, I know very little about kit in general but enjoy music very much and ultimately want the best set up I can get for my money, so constructive comments explaining both sides of the argument are very helpfulā¦
As you are a newbie to HiFi, I would like to offer all newbies a few pointers which I hope will help to navigate these forums and determine which elements are worth considering.
There are so many posters on here from all walks of life with very diverse budgets and taste in music. Some are very opinionated, some are very passionate and some seem to enjoy an argument! Most of us actually want to help others but do bear in mind, it is all opinion so should only be taken as an aid to creating a shortlist for dealer and then home audition.
When it comes to sources you have 3 main choices (excluding cassette and open reel) which are vinyl, CD and streaming. You will obviously determine which ones you like.
These forums will give a great insight to where Naim products fit within the Naim hierarchy. There will also be great advice on mixing non-Naim products with Naim.
It will be possible to get great advice on creating a short list for gear to audition regardless of your budget or if you by new or pre-loved.
Just beware that there will also be many rabbit holes that can suck you into a world of diverse considerations as well!
Thanks for the tips, I have been listening and reading as much as I can in preparation for upgrading my current gear. I have enough put by to get a nice set-up to last me a good while but very conscious that there are many on here who can spend a lot more than I can.
LP12 Majik is a signed off upgrade but then comes the tricky parts Amps and Speakers, so I am walking slowly and taking my time to listen to different set-ups to work out what will suit me.
The forum is a great place to just browse, research and absorb information.
I know it can be dauntingā¦ my suggestion is find a dealer who will let you home demoā¦ and focus initially on speakers that work in your roomā¦ then apply a good source and finally look at ampsā¦ also donāt discount going usedā¦ although perhaps not speakers unless you are trusting of their history. @Bjm summarised good sources above, I would add, depending where you live a tunerā¦ some radio material is not licenced for online or others are very low bandwidthā¦ so an FM tuner or DAB tuner can be good to considerā¦
Yepā¦ I really donāt know who ever started that. Most people listen in a shared living space with many compromises, and so finding speakers that work in the environment is pivotal. Unless you do that everything else is somewhat wasted, especially if you are after good hifi. I am sure many starting off focussing on glitzy electronics rather that what sounds great in the target environment has led to many becoming frustrated.
If your room is super compromised donāt discount looking at smaller bandwidth monitors like the LS3/5a type speakersā¦ and planning on listening closer to them.
Controversial but - not at all! You actually listen to the sound that your speakers create in your room. Arguably the most significant changes would be treatments to your room but many of us have shared function rooms rather than dedicated listening rooms so possibilities are limited.
Your speakers need amps that can drive them adequately.
The source first philosophy is based on the old adage āsht in, sht outā. The maximum SQ is limited by the quality of the source.
The actual approach that makes most sense is synergy. This is obtainable at all budgets. As @Simon-in-Suffolk states, a good dealer is the starting point. They can advise an initial setup within your budget of which you can trial in their demonstration room(s). Use these trials to create a shortlist of items to trial at home. The home trial is essential because it takes into account the properties of your listening environment.
My advice would be to get speakers that sound good in your space, are aesthetically pleasing to all who share the space and are tolerant of placement. After all , you listen to the speakers not the electronics.
I would also work on the premise that it will be your forever system rather than a stepping stone. I say this because you will concentrate on getting the best sound/functionality for your budget as opposed to accepting āsecond bestā knowing you will upgrade in the future.
Another very important factor are the ancillaries. You will probably need a decent rack to put the equipment on. Then you need to consider mains and interconnect cables. If streaming you need a good wifi signal or better still a wired connection. The wired connection may require a separate switch and definitely a decent Ethernet cable. You may also require a mains block with/without mains conditioning.
Speakers will require decent stands and or spikes/isolation solutions.
If streaming, you may need to rip CDs, buy a USB storage for the rips and probably take out a subscription with one of the streaming services (Qobuz, Tidal, Apple, Spotify etc.).
This is not intended to put you off - rather the opposite. Just to remind you that the budget needs to cover more than just the āblack boxesā.
The best advice Iād suggest is to find a good dealer or dealers in your travel to listen area. This is not a rehearsal. Most folk get one shot at this which means it has to be right unless money is to be wasted /music is to be endured rather than enjoyed. I happen to be a source first kind of guy. Only through demo can you decide if that or some other approach is right for you.
A bit of a curve ball thrown in, I hadnāt focused too much on Amps or Speakers, for now it was all about upgrading my TT, but can change direction as nothing has been ordered or paid for.
Iāll arrange to revisit the store in the next few weeks and look at speakers, the initial listening session was Kudos Super 20A, which were rather nice but the store had plenty of choice so getting something that; sounds good, fits the room and doesnāt bankrupt me shouldnāt be too difficult.
I have 100% to spend, how would you allocate that percentage across source, amps and speakers?
I wouldnāt divide it by percentage at all. A good dealer should be able to advise a few combinations that should work well together. I would then listen within their demo rooms and get a feel for the voice that I liked which would be the speakers.
I would then consider the maximum quality (not necessarily price) of source that would be available.
The amp would then be chosen on the basis that it could drive the speakers adequately and not throttle the source. Synergy is very important.
Although it my sound like a contradiction, there is nothing wrong with pursuing your TT upgrade to improve your source. Speakers and amp would then follow to provide synergy with your source.
As a ball park figure, you may need to allow 10 - 15% or more of your budget for cables, stands, racks etc. It is very likely that you will find you want to stretch your budget to get the sound you like.
Many on here are happy with a one box Naim solution (doesnāt have to be Naim) and just add speakers and a phono stage if necessary. This may be a great way to get synergy plus less cabling equals less ancillary cost.
Back on topic, when we consider that a CD transport has to take a digital file and transfer it in tact to a DAC, there will be an element of error correction involved. A CD rip will create an exact copy of the file which can consistently be passed to the DAC without the need for error correction. The transport is arguably not necessary unless you really like the process of selecting a CD, removing from jewel case, placing in player etc. It is far easier to stream the ripped files.
Remember though, many more clever people than me are providing good responses to the OP.
My set up is on stands/racks, I have reasonable quality interconnects and speaker cable so unless it is absolutely necessary to change them they will be reused.
I put this system together during covid all demoād at home but not this home, since owning it I realise that I want more from what I have especially vinyl. Hence I now have a case of upgradeitis.
My issue is that although I have kit my knowledge of Hifi in general is pretty poor, many years ago I heard an LP12/ Naim set up at a dealers in Central London and it blew me away. In many respects I am aiming to get that same hit with my new set-up. I also like the fact that a lot of the UK brands are long standing and been around for years, that gives me confidence that what I spend isnāt going to be wasted as the company should be around to sort out any issues.
Very aware that relationship with a store is a must, especially if home demoās are required - they will be.
Ripping CDās and streaming are of interest but not immediately, I like the idea and will run with it but not just yet.
Almost certainly Ivor Tiefenbrun. Although Naim followed this approach as well.
Despite being a fan of the 1980s āflat earthā hifi days, I am inclined to agree with you that matching speakers and room is a crucial part of building a good hifi. The idea of using Isobariks in a box room has always seemed like madness to me.
Anyway I donāt want to turn this into another one of the many source first threads so will now be quiet!
