Hybrid vs Variable volume

I’m sure I could never hope to aim so high

I’ve now tested this. In variable volume mode there is a slider that lets me change the volume using the app. It also shows a 0 to 100 scale on the display screen.

In fixed mode it’s obviously fixed and there is no volume slider.

In hybrid mode there is no slider either and the volume cannot be changed, whether using Qobuz or music streamed from my NAS.

This is using iOS. My conclusion, therefore, after this in depth and rigorous research in carefully controlled conditions, is that hybrid mode does nothing whatsoever. Other than confuse @RexManning of course.

I’m copying @Stevesky for info. It seems odd to have a ‘feature’ that does nothing.

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I love this community. Or I miss “normal” social contacts.

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Hi @RexManning @anon4489532

When using a dedicated streamer (like an NDX2) which is natively a fixed gain output device, we expose two other alternative volume modes so various services that assume a volume slider can work.

Volume mode - apps that assume a volume slider and digitally controlled volume (eg. Apple Music, Spotify etc) can work as intended. We do the volume in the DSP in the digital domain so using this feature eats into resolution of the DAC so is not recommended on higher end streamers under normal use.

Hybrid mode - The system will use fixed gain mode on high quality sources / sources that we have control over (eg. UPnP, Roon, Internet Radio, USB, External Inputs). On sources that assume volume sliders then the digital volume will be enabled… so Airplay2, Spotify Connect, Chromecast. Thinking being the end user can set a sensible volume setting on their preamp for ‘max’ and then use the volume sliders in the apps to attenuate the signal down relative to that volume setting.

For example, set the volume on the analogue preamp to 10oClock position and then in Spotify move the slider to 75% to get a typical listening volume.

Best regards

Steve Harris
Software Director
Naim Audio Ltd.

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Thanks @Stevesky Could I just check - in hybrid mode there was no slider on UPnP or Qobuz, but if I were to use Chromecast it should then appear. Is that right?

If you look at the screenshot posted by Rex above, it says that the volume is adjustable for ‘streaming services’. Qobuz is a streaming service yet there is no volume control in hybrid mode. Is it me or is the screenshot wrong? If the latter, I’d suggest some editing is required to make it more explicit.

Thanks, Steve, I think that I can follow your explanation, but frankly it is not possible to understand from the options in the app (where there is no explanation whatsoever) nor the help page (in the screenshot posted above) where it is highly ambiguous - as @anon4489532 already pointed out, “it says volume is adjustable for ‘streaming services’. Qobuz is a streaming service yet there is no volume control in hybrid mode”.

In discussions about the volume modes, the Hybrid came up numerous times on the forum in the past, but nobody ever posted an explanation/solution for what it does, as far as both I and @RexManning found in our respective forum searches. And if I am understanding your explanation correctly, then one can never find out about the actual Hybrid behavior if one does not happen to use Airplay2, Spotify Connect, or Chromecast

Hi @anon4489532 @Suedkiez

If using services that are directly controlled from our app then when in Hybrid mode the system does not use digital volume (hence no sliders). Primarily it will reduce the audio performance of the streamer. So Qobuz via the Naim app does not have the digital volume.

However, if for example Spotify is used, or Apple Music via Airplay2, then the sliders in the relevant native apps work as intended (+any hard buttons on the phone/iPad) and in the Naim app we should show the equiv volume slider as well.

This was all originally put in to get through certifications as many sources assume digital slider volumes, rather than traditional preamps that have no direct ‘go to volume x’ but rather a up/down volume system.

Best

Steve

Yes I get that now, but how would anyone know that when looking on the app or the help page. The user finds 3 modes without explanation in the app and when trying Hybrid it looks the same as Fixed. If one goes to the help page, the confusion continues because if you don’t know already what it does, then it seems as if there should be a slider when using e.g., Qobuz (“volume is adjustable for ‘streaming services’”).

Obviously the existence of the 3 modes makes sense as you explained it, but users should have a fighting chance to understand without asking you :slight_smile:

Thanks Steve. May I therefore suggest that you task those who write the help pages to edit the description of hybrid mode to reflect what it actually does. As it stands it’s just confusing. Hopefully that would reduce questions and ultimately save time.

I currently use the remote for my 282 to control the volume to my NDX2 or on occasion the volume control knob on the pre amp. If I am listening to music via the NDX2 is it better to control the volume a different way and does this give a sound benefit ? Thanks

The best way is to enable system automation in the app. This will automatically set the NDX2 volume to “fixed” (which is best for sound quality) and will hide the “Volume mode” option in the app’s settings.

Connect the NDX2 and the 282 with a simple cable, 3.5 mm headphone jack on the NDX2 (labeled “IR out” on the NDX2), RCA on the 282 (labeled “RC5”). The cable can be mono or stereo. If stereo, connect the left channel to the 282.

Then you can use the 282 remote to control the 282 volume as usual, but also the NDX2 remote, which will send signals to the 282 over the cable. This then rotates the 282 volume dial by the built-in motor, in the same way as when using the 282 remote. This way, all volume is controlled by the 282.

This is, unfortunately, another poorly documented topic and the solution is not obvious (in part because the labeling on the two units is different, and the “system automation” manual is difficult to find and outdated). Search the forum for “system automation”, it keeps coming up all the time. Let us know if you have additional questions.

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Thank you (all) for your efforts in this matter. I will play around with it when my new platform streamer replaces my old platform one in some weeks. Last question to check if I understood completely:

Tidal will have the ability later this year for connect. Hybrid mode: Using the Tidal app with connect, there will be a slider for digital volume. Using Tidal within the Naim app, no slider?

That sounds right. Just remember that inbuilt Tidal should sound better as it works in a different way inside the streamer.

Thank you. I think I will try hybrid mode at first in our household. I will use volume from the pre, my wife can use the slider from her apps.

Thanks for your help, most comprehensive. Does sound a bit of a faff doing that though. Think I will just control volume direct through 282 remote.

It takes literally two minutes and is easy peasy. A 3.5mm jack to RCA wire costs about £1.50. It’s well worth doing.

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Thanks, just looked to order one. Assume 1 end of the RCA lead would be left unused ?

You can get a mono one which is neater

image

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You want a 3.5mm jack to single RCA.

Perfect, thanks all.