Thanks robert_h. Yes i’m going to experiment because it’s almost there really. I’m also warming to the idea of going for a ND555/555DR/NAC252/NAP250DR. Brains & brawn Fraim stacks and still keeping the n-SATs.
Don’t feel bad Nigel. It’s a lovely in mint condition Piano Black sub. I could not of been directed any better. I quite often run my hand over it most days. It’s a classy piece of engineering.
As you say, where i have it in-between the n-SATs, is probably the worst position one could ever place it. When my back is a little more able, i’m going to move it to one side and more forward towards my listening position. Not sure if i should purchase a microphone to help me assist in best overall positioning.
Stephen - It’s a shame you’ve not fully got on with the n-Sub. I must admit I enjoyed mine with n-Sats. One setup trick I did find useful regarding placement in the room and distance to the back wall, was to turn off (unplug I’m my case) the main speakers and listen to the sub on its own using a variety of tracks. A bit strange to start with but careful placement for the tightest and most tuneful bass made integration with the n-Sats much easier. It was then just a case of setting gain, frequency and phase. As others mention, some time spent experimenting pays dividends with the final result. Connected via high level to the n-Sats themselves (via B&Q’s finest 3A mains cable) the n-Sub just made the n-Sats appear bigger than they really were without detracting from their speed and fun. You couldn’t tell there was a sub running, but muting the n-Sub soon showed the effect it had. This was with a 300 fronting the n-Sats.
One other thing to mention and this certainly benefited in my case, was having the n-Sub running off the same power socket as the rest of the kit. I was using a Grahams Hydra at the time so just made up an extra extension cable (albeit with B&Q’s finest 13A mains cable) to connect a spare Hydra head to the n-Sub.
5 Likes
That is a very, very helpful post James. At the moment I’m using the SN3’s low level sub output. It had never occurred to me to try the high level input from the n-SATs. Also trying just with the sub on it’s own is another genius suggestion.
As for power, I may just wire the n-SUB in direct with the SN3’s powerline-Lite plug.
Plenty for me to think about.
Next time I’m rained off from work and my place is empty I’m going to whip out my solder iron. Now to purchase some Chord Leyland speaker cable and a couple of SA8s.
Thanks kindly for your help 
1 Like
No problem Stephen - worth a try and good luck
1 Like
One person with experience and knowledge associated with setting up a sub well is @Xanthe . This is a link to one of several posts she has made on the subject, highlighting importance of proper set up
1 Like
Thanks for the link. Plenty of reading for me to do. A microphone and some software is certainly another viable consideration. I need to look it as I’m not very computer literate with graphs and things.
Stephen you’ve got my every sympathy. I’ve got Ls50 metas and a room that doesn’t lack for bass but following a concert went on the hunt for more, something to really make me feel the music.
So I duly bought a KC-62 sub, designed to work with the Metas and subject to amazing reviews.
Prior to this subs were the preserve of home cinema and any self respecting music fan wouldn’t go near them was my view.
I’ve gone through so many different positions, crossover settings and gain control to achieve deep but fast bass, trying to avoid that car subwoofer experience you describe.
In summary it’s a damned frustrating experience, there are so many permutations that even when you have it sounding good you are still thinking could it be better.
I’ve got it sounding the best it ever has now, but I would say that it really shows up the difference in recordings in relation to the bass.
They are definitely not just a fit and forget instant improvement in my experience. I’ve now got a query in with Kef as to the dsp effects of the room settings as I’m finding better results with settings at odds to the guidance. It is probably the room modes, but it’s another thing that then needs consideration.
Unless you are really lucky then it can certainly be frustrating getting it all working to its best.
1 Like
Thanks for sharing your experiences here Adam 1. I have resorted back to using MeiCord Opal Ethernet cables. The bass has sped up and tightened considerably, even without doing anything else…
I have cancelled my order for 2 more AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet cables - way too much bass. My feet are now tapping again.
This thread has really prompted me to try a few things out thanks to a lot of the great suggestions made here. I feel sure I should be able to make things work with some effort and leg work now. My room is quite acoustically forgiving and I’m trying to avoid floor standers if I can for many other reasons, one of them being space. Plenty to be getting on the with for now though…hope to report back after some trial and error.
Thanks all!
1 Like
When I had an nSub Naim advised that the low level connection from the dedicated sub out was the best way to connect. I really wouldn’t start buying more wires in the hope of a magical transformation. You already have sub leads. Buying more stuff won’t help. What you need to do is play with positioning and the level and crossover point. If I recall, you want somewhere around 60Hz. If you go too low you’ll get a gap in the bass. If you go too high you’ll hear the music coming from the sub, which is something you absolutely don’t want.
3 Likes
Although from the manual…
The decision to use either the line level or speaker level inputs when the n-SUB is not connected via an AV decoder can be made on the grounds of sound quality. It is impossible to predict which option will sound best in a particular system and installation, however the speaker level option, by virtue of higher signal levels being more robust over long lead lengths, is potentially superior.
As you mention though, experimenting with positioning and settings should come first.
As you say, who knows which is best. But the point I’m making is to put in the effort, simply changing wires won’t help. It would only be a sticking plaster.
Yep - I don’t disagree Nigel. Get the basics right first.
1 Like
In order to position the sub, you may use this little trick:
-
Put the sub in the place you seat to listen to music
-
Play music and then move yourself in between and around the speakers
The place where you like more your music is the place where you should position the sub.
Not very scientific, but it works.
3 Likes
To an extent I think all speakers tip their balance in one direction or another. Although I would also agree that the speakers youve mentioned have a stronger tilt than others. However for me as long as the speaker is exciting and engages me into the listening experience I am happy.
2 Likes
It’s curious how often people refer to choosing speakers that make music exciting or fun - isn’t it supposed to be the music that is exciting or fun, if fun or excitement are what you want? With that captured in a recording, all the speaker (and rest of system) should have to do is reproduce what was recorded, not create excitement or fun if the music doesn’t have it…
I’ve never understood why people use subs in two channel systems with floor standing speakers. And I’ve listened to plenty. It does seem like the n sub should work well with the n sats though. Weird.
I would have expected to agree with you, but in practice I’ve had better results using my N-Sub with floorstanders than I did with my N-Sats.
The n-SUB does blend very well with n-SATs but like with all speaker systems, rooms etc…there are trade offs and it’s which trade offs one is willing to accept. With dance and reggae music for instance the sub comes into it’s own. With those genres of music it doesn’t tend to matter if the bass goes a bit wayward, so in those situations the sub can become rather fun, well sort of…
1 Like
Well I’ve kept quiet on this topic Stephen but as you know I did have the nSub with the nSats and it did it for me for quite some time
I played around with positioning and it was much better on a side wall not centred between the nSats
My naim dealer optimised the nSUB set up
So I think that was very important he did explain it to me at the time but my memory has faded
Having said that I now just have the nSats in another location out of Sydney with chrome bumper gear and they sound mighty - they are keepers
If you’re looking for “grown up” nSats try the Neat Petite 30th anniversaries ( may be all sold now as only 100 pairs made) I have pair here in Sydney - they are absolute crackers - dare I say better than nSATs
Cheers
1 Like