The n-SUB does blend very well with n-SATs but like with all speaker systems, rooms etc…there are trade offs and it’s which trade offs one is willing to accept. With dance and reggae music for instance the sub comes into it’s own. With those genres of music it doesn’t tend to matter if the bass goes a bit wayward, so in those situations the sub can become rather fun, well sort of…
1 Like
Well I’ve kept quiet on this topic Stephen but as you know I did have the nSub with the nSats and it did it for me for quite some time
I played around with positioning and it was much better on a side wall not centred between the nSats
My naim dealer optimised the nSUB set up
So I think that was very important he did explain it to me at the time but my memory has faded
Having said that I now just have the nSats in another location out of Sydney with chrome bumper gear and they sound mighty - they are keepers
If you’re looking for “grown up” nSats try the Neat Petite 30th anniversaries ( may be all sold now as only 100 pairs made) I have pair here in Sydney - they are absolute crackers - dare I say better than nSATs
Cheers
1 Like
Both my pairs of nSats have subs, although one set in fairness is the rears in a 5.1 set up. In the shed I have I think Rel’s first ever sub with a pair of nSats, sounds lovely to my ears. I don’t have it loud though particularly this is very near field listening, the nSats sound thin at low volume so the sub helps
Actually, it’s got some good straightforward science behind it! Since lower frequency sounds have longer wavelengths, they can produce standing waves in a room with nodes that a listener will experience as relatively bass-free zones. Having had my system in an odd-shaped room with one of these exactly at my preferred listening position, they are extremely frustrating.
What your suggestion does is reverse the situation, since (all else being equal) anywhere it sounds good with the sub in your seat is somewhere it’ll sound good in your seat when it’s reversed.
In practice, though, it’s easier said than done: you should put the sub at your ears’ listening height and then you have to crawl around on the floor to find preferred positions - unless you’re happy with suspending your sub, say, five feet above your coffee table or right in front of the TV, just because ‘that’s where it sounds good’!
Mark
1 Like
Quite. Who wants a speaker that turns Bach into Madness? I want speakers that make music sound natural.
Indeed, I have suggested that reverse positioning trial on occasion in the past (not this thread), and in some instances it can be very effective, particularly with speakers having the drivers and any ports concentrated in a small area rather than a tall speaker with drivers distributed. If nothing else it can tell you that your chosen listening position is not going to work - I had that in my current room at first, and had to completely rearrange the room from the original layout I had opted for. However, I guess that with a sub doing by ear is exceedingly difficult, more so than a full range speaker, and using a microphone and analysing software such as REW really the only effective way to set up a sub - perhaps using the reverse positioning to find a possible location, then connect the satellites and proceed with rest of set up (but I don’t have personal experience with a sub).
1 Like
My opinion is that speakers should effectively comminicate the emotional essence of the music first and foremost. If they don’t do that then for me they are a failure. We all listen differently and what people regard as the ‘emotional essence’ of the music will likely vary from person to person.
For me a ‘natural sounding’ speaker is one that achieves this. For me that invariably means a speaker capable of conveying a realistic sense of speed, dynamics and impact. Some may refer to such speakers as ‘exciting’ sounding in a negative sense. I would argue that such a speaker is simply realistic - not exciting. It seems people often refer to ‘natural sounding’ speakers as those that sound smooth and polite. These to my ears are not natural. They suppress the important aspects of the music for me to the point which makes it boring.
1 Like
Agree those anniversaries are special communicators but the good news is Neat are releasing new ones later in the year circa September time. Not the anniversary edition but standard ones but not limited edition.
I don’t understand it. I want my kit to convey the most realistic reproduction of what the artist conveyed in the recording. Subs have always sounded artificial to me in a two channel set up.
1 Like
If a speaker is accurate, it will communicate whatever emotional essence of tge music has been captured in the recording, turned to an electric signal by the source, and presented to it by the amp (of course working in partnership with the amp and with the room).
1 Like
I must admit, i’ve always associated subs with AV set-ups, where they make much more sense. For natural sounding music one really needs a floor standing speaker of the highest quality. I don’t think a 2.1 speaker system will ever match those, regardless of any positioning or tuning.
1 Like
Interesting thread, I’ve been pondering adding a sub (existing one I’m not currently using) to my desk nearfield setup, mainly as my PMC DB1i’s have limits, mainly on their bottom end range.
I also had a worry it would potentially be a distracting addition, I’ve got a space to one side of my desk I could put it and will likely experiment even if I’m just using it beyond the range of the PMC’s.
I’d agree with others that it’s worth experimenting with the room layout rather than giving up on it entirely, either way hope you find a rewarding outcome, I know from having N-Sat’s myself in the past they are enjoyable speakers that are easy to live with.
1 Like
I was like that too, until I heard a friends set up with a pair. I then tried one in my setup and it’s still there. It was primarily for LFE with movies, but I’ve found it works well with music with a low gain.
1 Like
Stephen, Please at least try implementing @Rafael’s allegedly ‘not very scientific’ proposal, before you give up on the n-Sub.
Otherwise you are just flip-flopping from one so-called forum ‘opinion former’s’ view to the next. I suppose what I am really trying to say is, what if you got a pair of floorstanders in as replacements, and they were pants? How would you feel then?
Ideas need to be tested if possible. And with a bit of effort, you can.
C.
3 Likes
If I recall correctly in ST’s case, the N-Sat’s did replace floorstanding speakers, Neat or similar?
Speakers can be such a tough thing to truly evaluate, unless you’re willing to borrow a candidate pair and try them for an extended period at your home in your listening space.
That’s rarely easy to achieve and usually speakers find their way in to systems based on other metrics, like reviews, recommendations, retailer demos and so forth.
I certainly know I have friends who have or have had the same speakers as I was using and theirs sounded noticably different in their rooms on their systems so setup and environment space play a key part in establishing system synergy if nothing else.
2 Likes
Accurate to what? To the spirit of the music or to the letter of the recording?
Take Linn Kans and BBC LS3/5a’s as examples of each of these. Now the LS3/5a’s are arguably far more accurate than the Kans in terms of staying faithful to the signal. The Kans are in comparison very coloured indeed - certainly not faithful to the signal in the same way.
Yet to my ears the Kans are inifinitely more capable in terms of conveying an emotional connection with the music than LS3/5a’s, which, despite their undeniable lack of colouration completely fail to engage me on an emotional level. And music is about emotion.
At the end of the day we could argue this ad-infinitum and I wouldn’t disagree with your views despite mine being different. That’s why some people love the Kans and hate LS3/5a’s and vice-versa.
We are both right, and equally both wrong!
2 Likes
A bit like an old-fashioned loudness control - remember them?!
As you already have the nSub there is no harm in experimenting as others have suggested. Subs are one of those things that seems to divide people. They work very successfully for some and just not at all for others. Who knows why? Different systems, different rooms, different expectations and perceptions - it all no doubt plays a part.
1 Like
The recording of course. If the recording is bad then that is the problem. Trying to guess the “spirit of the music” means the speakers (system) would have to analyse each piece and somehow ‘tune’ itself to something at which it can only guess. I don’t think AI is that good yet, (And I’m not aware of any speakers incorporating AI yet.)
Interesting concept you have there though, the new Dynaudio Focus do have DIRAC built in to them but that’s more about creating a baseline for the speakers relative to the room they’re in rather than tuning dynamically and in real time based on the music and it’s interaction with the room.
I do find myself being increasingly drawn towards these more integrated streaming speaker solutions, The Dynaudio Focus and the new Kef floor standers I’m keen to hear myself at some point. If they can perform and be tuned to a room as well as is claimed that could be an interesting proposition, especially for challenging rooms in terms of layout or for equipment to be located.
Dirac is room correction - absolutely nothing to do with music correction. (and of course it can do nothing about some room problems, e.g. cancellations, early reflections, and decay time, for which a combination of positioning and room treatment are tge only way.