No problem Stephen - worth a try and good luck 
1 Like
One person with experience and knowledge associated with setting up a sub well is @Xanthe . This is a link to one of several posts she has made on the subject, highlighting importance of proper set up
1 Like
Thanks for the link. Plenty of reading for me to do. A microphone and some software is certainly another viable consideration. I need to look it as I’m not very computer literate with graphs and things.
Stephen you’ve got my every sympathy. I’ve got Ls50 metas and a room that doesn’t lack for bass but following a concert went on the hunt for more, something to really make me feel the music.
So I duly bought a KC-62 sub, designed to work with the Metas and subject to amazing reviews.
Prior to this subs were the preserve of home cinema and any self respecting music fan wouldn’t go near them was my view.
I’ve gone through so many different positions, crossover settings and gain control to achieve deep but fast bass, trying to avoid that car subwoofer experience you describe.
In summary it’s a damned frustrating experience, there are so many permutations that even when you have it sounding good you are still thinking could it be better.
I’ve got it sounding the best it ever has now, but I would say that it really shows up the difference in recordings in relation to the bass.
They are definitely not just a fit and forget instant improvement in my experience. I’ve now got a query in with Kef as to the dsp effects of the room settings as I’m finding better results with settings at odds to the guidance. It is probably the room modes, but it’s another thing that then needs consideration.
Unless you are really lucky then it can certainly be frustrating getting it all working to its best.
1 Like
Thanks for sharing your experiences here Adam 1. I have resorted back to using MeiCord Opal Ethernet cables. The bass has sped up and tightened considerably, even without doing anything else…
I have cancelled my order for 2 more AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet cables - way too much bass. My feet are now tapping again.
This thread has really prompted me to try a few things out thanks to a lot of the great suggestions made here. I feel sure I should be able to make things work with some effort and leg work now. My room is quite acoustically forgiving and I’m trying to avoid floor standers if I can for many other reasons, one of them being space. Plenty to be getting on the with for now though…hope to report back after some trial and error.
Thanks all!
1 Like
When I had an nSub Naim advised that the low level connection from the dedicated sub out was the best way to connect. I really wouldn’t start buying more wires in the hope of a magical transformation. You already have sub leads. Buying more stuff won’t help. What you need to do is play with positioning and the level and crossover point. If I recall, you want somewhere around 60Hz. If you go too low you’ll get a gap in the bass. If you go too high you’ll hear the music coming from the sub, which is something you absolutely don’t want.
3 Likes
Although from the manual…
The decision to use either the line level or speaker level inputs when the n-SUB is not connected via an AV decoder can be made on the grounds of sound quality. It is impossible to predict which option will sound best in a particular system and installation, however the speaker level option, by virtue of higher signal levels being more robust over long lead lengths, is potentially superior.
As you mention though, experimenting with positioning and settings should come first.
As you say, who knows which is best. But the point I’m making is to put in the effort, simply changing wires won’t help. It would only be a sticking plaster.
Yep - I don’t disagree Nigel. Get the basics right first.
1 Like
In order to position the sub, you may use this little trick:
-
Put the sub in the place you seat to listen to music
-
Play music and then move yourself in between and around the speakers
The place where you like more your music is the place where you should position the sub.
Not very scientific, but it works.
3 Likes
To an extent I think all speakers tip their balance in one direction or another. Although I would also agree that the speakers youve mentioned have a stronger tilt than others. However for me as long as the speaker is exciting and engages me into the listening experience I am happy.
2 Likes
It’s curious how often people refer to choosing speakers that make music exciting or fun - isn’t it supposed to be the music that is exciting or fun, if fun or excitement are what you want? With that captured in a recording, all the speaker (and rest of system) should have to do is reproduce what was recorded, not create excitement or fun if the music doesn’t have it…
I’ve never understood why people use subs in two channel systems with floor standing speakers. And I’ve listened to plenty. It does seem like the n sub should work well with the n sats though. Weird.
I would have expected to agree with you, but in practice I’ve had better results using my N-Sub with floorstanders than I did with my N-Sats.
The n-SUB does blend very well with n-SATs but like with all speaker systems, rooms etc…there are trade offs and it’s which trade offs one is willing to accept. With dance and reggae music for instance the sub comes into it’s own. With those genres of music it doesn’t tend to matter if the bass goes a bit wayward, so in those situations the sub can become rather fun, well sort of…
1 Like
Well I’ve kept quiet on this topic Stephen but as you know I did have the nSub with the nSats and it did it for me for quite some time
I played around with positioning and it was much better on a side wall not centred between the nSats
My naim dealer optimised the nSUB set up
So I think that was very important he did explain it to me at the time but my memory has faded
Having said that I now just have the nSats in another location out of Sydney with chrome bumper gear and they sound mighty - they are keepers
If you’re looking for “grown up” nSats try the Neat Petite 30th anniversaries ( may be all sold now as only 100 pairs made) I have pair here in Sydney - they are absolute crackers - dare I say better than nSATs
Cheers
1 Like
Both my pairs of nSats have subs, although one set in fairness is the rears in a 5.1 set up. In the shed I have I think Rel’s first ever sub with a pair of nSats, sounds lovely to my ears. I don’t have it loud though particularly this is very near field listening, the nSats sound thin at low volume so the sub helps
Actually, it’s got some good straightforward science behind it! Since lower frequency sounds have longer wavelengths, they can produce standing waves in a room with nodes that a listener will experience as relatively bass-free zones. Having had my system in an odd-shaped room with one of these exactly at my preferred listening position, they are extremely frustrating.
What your suggestion does is reverse the situation, since (all else being equal) anywhere it sounds good with the sub in your seat is somewhere it’ll sound good in your seat when it’s reversed.
In practice, though, it’s easier said than done: you should put the sub at your ears’ listening height and then you have to crawl around on the floor to find preferred positions - unless you’re happy with suspending your sub, say, five feet above your coffee table or right in front of the TV, just because ‘that’s where it sounds good’!
Mark
1 Like
Quite. Who wants a speaker that turns Bach into Madness? I want speakers that make music sound natural.
Indeed, I have suggested that reverse positioning trial on occasion in the past (not this thread), and in some instances it can be very effective, particularly with speakers having the drivers and any ports concentrated in a small area rather than a tall speaker with drivers distributed. If nothing else it can tell you that your chosen listening position is not going to work - I had that in my current room at first, and had to completely rearrange the room from the original layout I had opted for. However, I guess that with a sub doing by ear is exceedingly difficult, more so than a full range speaker, and using a microphone and analysing software such as REW really the only effective way to set up a sub - perhaps using the reverse positioning to find a possible location, then connect the satellites and proceed with rest of set up (but I don’t have personal experience with a sub).
1 Like