Hi Guys,
I’ve noticed many with Naim Fraims have a sheet of glass with ball bearings on each shelf.
Now I can’t afford the Fraim but can sheets of glass etc.
How much does this improve the sound?
Is it definately worth the investment?
Finally is it a specific type of glass and how secure are the ball bearings?
I can imagine it being difficult placing a heavy component onto the glass without disturbing the ball bearings.
Thanks for any replies to my questions.
I used the system of 10 mm toughened glass shelves suspended on tiny ballbearings of very hard ceramic material.
I think in the end these tended to move slightly from vibrations in the room.
So I now use the same 10 mm glass sheets on large chromed steel Nuts with one side rounded (ball nutters) to suspend the glass sheets on my wooden shelves.
It seems to work well, although I haven’t tried the back test of removing them yet.
1 Like
Hi 
…
Try these in the picture below…
Stack Audio AUVA EQ.
Available in three different weight classes,.I have them under some of my devices, including my streamer which is in a Mana Acoustics Reference rack that has glass shelves.
Exceptionally good…
3 Likes
Specification for the glass is …
Pilkington 10mm Anti-Sun Grey Toughened Glass.
Also…
Naim Fraim parts - shown above - can be obtained from your local dealer.
- Ball Bearings
- Ball Bearing Cups
- Glass Locator Rings (pairs)
Here is a close up, to illustrate how these Fraim parts fit together.
Instructions to a glass merchant might include the bevelled edge arrangement, shown above
Good luck
R
6 Likes
The glass/ball bearing arrangement is integral to the overall design of Fraim. There is no guarantee that implementing this on any other rack or piece of furniture will produce worthwhile results. It could easily make things worse.
3 Likes
So you may think, but years ago there were discussions on the old forum about so-called ball-nutters and how they improved sound quality. It was a little while after this that Naim adopted the same feature on Fraim. I suspect that was not a coincidence.
3 Likes
We tried toughened glass and Naim cups and balls under an LP12, on top of a Target wall shelf or (briefly) my granite-shelved rack.
Cups and balls work well as part of a Fraim. We found them far from helpful if used on other supports.
Otoh, it costs very little to find out for yourself.
2 Likes
Seeking isolation for Olive pair of 135’s
NAC 82 & a Supercap
Adding a 10mm toughened glass shelf supported by 3 silicon carbide balls on dimpled brass discs to each level of my 1990s Sound Factory Tripod is one of the best VFM upgrades I’ve ever made.
1 Like
Glass has been used as an interface since the early days of the Mana racks. Naim then added the ball bearing approach as they found that even sharp spikes would round off or bend. I believe they called this the ‘knife edge’ approach. However, as PJL commented, there is no guarantee the approach will work on other racks. I tried it on a Quadraspire with ‘ball nutters’ and it sounded horrible. All edgy and zingy. It was far better just on their bamboo shelves. The key is to experiment but there is no certainty.
2 Likes
Like the look of these.
The ‘audiophile man’ gave them a great review on YouTube.
Certainly worth consideration.
2 Likes
It’s all about context. It’s not so much about the actual materials or elements used as the way in which they are used and how they integrate into the overall rack design.
Adding extra elements to an existing rack, unless specifically designed for it by the manufacturer (as in the case of the Quadraspire Q Plus pucks which I use on my Quadraspire SVT rack) is always highly unpredictable and generally not a good idea. One can very easily negate design elements and unbalance and spoil the performance.
I’m always amused when I see pictures of high-end racks costing thousands of pounds that people have placed Ikea chopping boards or the like onto. Does anyone really think they can improve the performance of a £20K Stillpoints rack with a £10 Ikea bamboo chopping board?! People do such crazy things…
2 Likes
To be fair, people do much crazier thing than waste £10 testing how it sounds to them. I suspect that most DIY tweaks won’t pass a blind test, but finding out is rarely as cheap and easy as this.
2 Likes
It’s surprisingly easy to waste many hundreds of pounds trying out various low cost options over the months - none of which actually cut the mustard. I know - I’ve done it. As my dear wife pointed out to me. “With all the money you’ve wasted buying different chopping boards and feet you could have actaully bought a proper rack that actually works by now!” Since then she has pronounced - don’t waste any more money on hi-fi by buying cheap bits and pieces. Just buy the proper thing however much it costs. So I guess I’m lucky!
3 Likes
How well any isolation works, will depend on what these units are standing on or how they are supported and the type of floor.
I’ve used glass and cups for a second system, but as has been pointed out results may vary. Used here because the speakers are really close to the units, which sit on a very heavy sideboard - no other position options.
Best to identify the problem, if there is one, before seeking a solution.
I’m not sure where @NickofWimbledon is sourcing supplies, but each level, for which four are needed - no mention of a source - will be around £100.
Best advice, avoid spending and save for a s/h Fraim Lite, which would likely provide better results.
I took the £10 directly from @PJL ’s post, and have not checked IKEA prices.
FWIW, I have rubbery feet from HRS between 52, CDS2 and Superline and the granite shelf that supports them. SQ marginally improved at the cost of a little inelegance (and the actual cost of course). The Stiletto LP12 sits on its feet and a Target wall shelf. Everything else we tried made things worse, and not necessarily by a small amount.
The big isolation upgrade for me was putting Gaias between my speakers and the bouncy wooden floor,
and changing the rack holding the boxes from a tripod (spiked to the bouncy floor) to a massive granite item right in an alcove that is considerably harder to shake about.
1 Like
Seconded. Have replaced Isoacoustics under my main components.
2 Likes
I use the isolated shelves described above only on my brains rack (inc. ND5XS2, dac, and 52, not on my brawn rack (where my psus and 135s reside).
@geko Oh dear … which component have you tried on quadraspire?
I have my zenith mk3 on quadraspire with Fraim balls and bearings plus Fraim Glas.
Reason: zenith has 3 feet which are on some kind of foam very difficult to to arrange sitting good on the svt bamboo shelf due to its holes.
Remember the sound direct on the wood shelf being a bit warmer and with glass a bit more resolving and direct.
But have seen several pics here where people add Fraim glass to quadraspire