If it’s easy, can you help clarify exactly what you’d need to place between two components to alleviate the effects of stacking and why this would help?
As per my other message I’m trying to drill down on exactly what it is that we’re trying to solve.
Naturally a bigger house would be preferable for all of us!
I’m really not smart enough to answer that (in the same way I’m not smart enough to fully understand why de-stressing a Burndy works. But it does). Whatever the resulting achievement, it’s desirable. Don’t know how - I assume it’s to do with the reducing interaction between the electronics in both interference and vibrations.
That’s good to know as i’m contemplating on purchasing a Fraim Lite myself and would hope that it’ll be an improvement over what i’m using in the meantime. The Fraim Lite attracts me with it’s simplicity. Maybe two even, side by side.
That’s totally fair enough. I’m in no way suggesting that these things don’t work but just that it’s be useful to understand (not you particularly) so that it’s possible to advise the OP on a sensible/reasoned approach to his/her predicament.
Naim have clearly cracked it with the Fraim but I’d expect them to, given they’re experts at what they do. I wouldn’t expect to DIY a solution that would negate the need for one but by understanding what the Fraim does, we can go some way to understanding what it is that makes stacking an undesirable option.
Can you tell me if the Fraim is a rigid or damped support?
Hmm, i disagree fundamentally with those that say if you can’t get it on a proper rack you shouldn’t buy the gear. If the gear is better sounding to you than anything else you can afford, then the compromise in siting is still worth it.
Interestingly, looking at racks, with shelves made of wood and/or glass , there is no electromagnetic shielding just a bit of spacing. And it appears that only maybe 50mm is adequate vertical spacing. So in that respect raising the top unit by 50mm or more will achieve whatever most racks do regarding electromagnetic influences. This can easily be achieved with two pieces of wood, say 50x25mm in section placed under the feet of the top unit, sitting on the top of the bottom unit. A bit of felt glued to one edge of the wood could minimise any risk of marking the lid. The amp needs the most air circulation for heat dissipation, so is probably best at top (unless there is something immediately abouve the space limiting).
That addresses electromagnetic effects, cited as the main reason for not stacking. There is also the question of mechanical stability and vibration isolation etc. If there is space, then as an alternative to the simple spacers you could try a homebrew rack in the form of a pair of side supports and a shelf, assembled together to bridge the bottom unit with a few mm gap at the sides to avoid touching it, all made of wood. You could use glass shelves bought from local glass supplier (polished edges, and preferably toughened) with 3 ball bearings as supports (+washers to keep in the right place), for both units. You could even fit spikes to the bottom of the side pieces, facilitating levelling and elimination of any possible wobble.
These solutions might not be as good as an ideal rack, but should be better than stacking - and would cost only a few £, so little to lose experimenting. Whether you would hear difference between doing one of these and a ‘proper’ rack may depend on the rest of your system, the room, and of course your ears.
I think that’s a really good starting point. I’ve just been looking into the Fraim and the Naim website mentions that the shelves are spaced to reduce magnetic interaction. Heights seem to be between 175 and 324mm.
As for the rest, it seems to me that the hifi industry has differing conventions to most other industries. For instance, to me, the use of spikes/bearings does not isolate vibration but couples it due to the lack of damping. Vibration isolation usually occurs when damping is introduced to minimise its propagation from one body to another. Engine mounts are a good example as is car suspension (spring and damper). The sole use of spikes or ball bearings doesn’t do this IMHO.
Vibration from a transformer could give rise to lateral and vertical displacement. Vertical vibration will simply travel straight down each spike to the next shelf at a similar amplitude. Laterally it’s likely to do the same, irrespective of the point contact, due the sheer mass of Naim components. Basically the amplitude of vibration would have to be greater than the pressure across three points before the effects of isolation would be of benefit. I doubt this is the case so any vibration from a transformer is likely to travel from a glass shelf, through the bearing to the wooden shelf and straight down to the spike/cup and the next shelf.
Keith Howard (Hi-Fi News) did some testing to validate this by placing accelerometers beneath speaker spikes. It seems obvious to me but he was surprised to find that the amplitude of vibration did not reduce with spikes but only when rubber or other compliant material was introduced.
Looking at the construction and parts in the Fraim manual, there doesn’t seem to be any damping introduced i.e. in the form of rubber etc, so my impression (unless theres something in each aluminium extrusion) is that the Fraim doesn’t isolate vibration but manages it in some other way.
To some extent, the presence of a massive transformer isn’t a problem for Naim electronics. Sure, it’s better if you can get an external PSU and I’ve had good results previously with my old Nait equipment. However, my feeling with all of this is that the Fraim manages vibration by tuning it out. This suggests that best results are likely achieved by taking a similar approach to a DIY shelf (as opposed to using sorbothane or some other anti vibration feature.
You could get a newer rack with separate shelves. That would make a huge difference.
I agree with the bulk. It’s odd, though, that you start by suggesting a dedicated rack is not a must (true) but then detail how you could emulate such a rack.
As I said, there are plenty of options to avoid stacking and you have highlighted some DIY options, which I have experimented with. It’s not a case of ‘should’ or ‘shouldn’t’, it’s a case of poor choices and sensible choices. A Uniti would make more sense if you don’t have the space.
I think its OK to accept & hear that something works without feeling the need to tear the logic apart to minutiae.
Nothing odd really: I started by saying that not being able to use with a proper rack is not a reason for not buying (contrary to what some others have said), not saying that spacing is not a good idea. I readily acknowledge that spacing can reduce electromagnetic effects, so offered a simple way to do. And the rack approach recognises that more isolated support can be beneficial for some equipment, my suggestion being a minimal-space approach which might have at least some of the benefits even if not fully those of a “proper” rack like a Fraim, for someone possibly lacking either the space or the funds.
OK, I see what you mean now. There are no rules, and perhaps you’d accept it depends where someone is buying on the Naim ladder, but I maintain it’s little effort to separate the equipment to achieve best results and if this really isn’t possible for space reasons then a different, integrated solution makes way more sense.
The point is, even if space is very tight the units can at least be separated without recourse to a rack, and there are possibilities that are better than nothing even if maybe not as good as buying a Fraim. …and apart from anything else, as the OP appears to have already committed to the separates it is very unhelpful at best to say he/she should have bought something else.
Spikes very clearly couple surfaces - that there are a few in the industry that don’t understand this isn’t reason to believe none do.
You and I are in complete agreement.
This is a forum, though, so there will be inevitably comments that are ‘at best unhelpful’. I don’t think that’s a problem at all. No need for an acidic tone.
It was not meant to come across as acidic
Sure but there’s a lot of manufacture text that mixes the use of spikes/bearings with the terms ‘isolation’. Sadly this seems to rub off on customers. I don’t think I said everyone buys into this (apologies if it came across that way).
I think a lot of companies do it. Even the revered Tenderfeet are described as isolation cones.
The hifi industry, “doing it since 1723” 
As a compromise how about something like an isolation shelf you could place between the amp and the source? IsoAcoustics zaZen springs to mind.
You’d still need to make sure the feet didn’t mark the Naim casings, as they do mark very easily and quickly, perhaps some small squares of thin plastic?
Wow what a discussion my question started.
Anyway I would like to thank everyone for their input. I now have my Supernait3 and the ND5 XS 2.
They sound fantastic. I´m so happy. And just to let you know they are placed next to each other. Not one on top of the other.
But I need to get a more permanent solution.
If I place them inside a row of a shelf how much space above the Supernait in order to get enough ventilation so they dont run to hot?
Is 8 cm enough?
8cm sounds fine, but it will depend on the room temperature, and how much air circulation there is around the shelf.
Thanks @ChrisSU
I live in Sweden so high temperature should not be a big problem if you know what I mean. 
The shelf will have open back so that should also help with ventilation.
